Toxic Positivity vs. Authentic Leadership

Is workplace positivity building trust — or masking real problems?

In this episode of Relationships at Work, Russel Lolacher sits down with author Johanna Laurent to unpack the difference between authentic positivity and the kind that shuts people down.

They explore:

• Why leaders focus on what’s wrong instead of what’s working
• The self-work required before you can lead others well
• How to create space for honesty without sliding into negativity
• Why you can get results and build a great environment

This isn’t about pretending everything’s fine.

It’s about being honest in the light — and leading from there.

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Transcript

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Russel Lolacher: And on the show today we have Johanna Laurent, and here is why she is awesome. She's a speaker, entrepreneur, and founder of Positive Phrases, a platform dedicated to spreading intentional, authentic positivity through words and actions. You kind of need both.

She's also the author of Everything is Perfect, where she explores the tension between radical acceptance and performative positivity, challenging the idea that positivity should mean ignoring discomfort, should mean ignoring discomfort or glossing over workplace pain. It should not, is what she's stressing here. And she's here.

Hi, Johanna.

Johanna Laurent: Hi.

Russel Lolacher: Positivity. Oh, the different ways we can talk about this, the good and the bad, and I'm excited to, but first, you're not off the hook. I have to ask you the question I ask all of my guests, Johanna, which is, what is your best or worst employee experience?

Johanna Laurent: You know. I had this, this was a really big thing for me. I've had, I have a company, another company that I've had in business for over 20 years, and you know it, and that's how positive phrases came about. But one, I used to focus, I have a sales team and I would focus on, on the people that weren't really.

I producing would always like, spend time and energy and, and really like myself and my daughter came once and I wouldn't even focus on the ones that producing kind strange. I was kind of into the mode, like instead of expanding what was working. And my daughter comes to the job and she goes, mom, wow, that person's sales is amazing.

He's great. And I said, wow. How funny is that? I don't acknowledge what's working. My focus is in what's not working, which came when I used to bring my kid, my mom and my dad, my report card. They would never acknowledge what was going good. Not making them bad or wrong, it's just, it's funny how patterns are created.

And I said, wow, I, you know, they would focus if I got all As and 1D, which had happened, they will focus on that D instead of what was working. And I said to myself, it was a big breakthrough. And you know, that employee, when I started focusing on him, became a multimillion dollar producer in the company.

Russel Lolacher: Do you think it was, and I hear you, believe me, especially older generations or other cultures are very specific on that. The negative, they don't, they're like, oh, it's the stuff that's working. I don't need to care about, I just need to care about. That's not working. Do you think it might be a level. And I'm, I'm just guessing here that you, that they weren't working in the way that worked for you. You don't work how I work, so there must be something wrong. Do. Do you feel like that might have been a part of it?

Johanna Laurent: Hundred percent. We're too busy. It's easy to like people that are like us, come on, let's get real. That's the easy part. We could get, we can meet. If I can meet all Johanna, it's all good. I'm gonna have a fantastic life. Gonna be awesome, great experience, but it's not like that. And we all know that and we're here to grow and how do we grow by seeing the greatness in others?

But Russel. The biggest breakthrough I've had is I couldn't see other people's greatness until I own mine. So as critical as I was of others, I was really critical of myself. This all, everything is me. And when I really started like noticing that and observing that, that's when I started growing and producing what I wanted.

I knew it's, it's, it wasn't outside of me. It wasn't the other person. It was me. And the more I own my greatness and the more I develop and master my craft, the more I create a space for them to master their craft. It's all an internal journey. Russel.

Russel Lolacher: Is. Thank you for that. It is, it is a huge staple of this show. Even though the show's called Relationships at Work, the number one relationship we have is the one we have with ourselves, and that's the one that we don't, I don't think we stress enough about. We keep thinking of what, how are we gonna do, how are we gonna interact with other people?

And that's just not the way it should be.

What I love on this show is defining things. Because again, we throw out terms all the time and don't always define them. Or sometimes my guest and I might have different understandings of terms.

And since we're talking about positivity today, I'm curious, Johanna, about what, how you define workplace positivity.

Johanna Laurent: By staying... like one of my, one of my top producer goes, stay in your lane. Stay in your lane, Johanna. I go, Ooh, that's a good one. Stay in your lane. Because you know, I have mastered my craft, right? They have mastered their craft. And when I go in someone's lane, I make it hard for them because if I, unless I'm going as a collective together is better.

See together is better, but together is better by respecting each other's talent, by, by allowing people to process things. Because you know, I read this in a book, I don't know who said it. I think it was one of the Neil Donald Washing's book. It said, there's many ways to wash dishes. It doesn't mean, and they'll get done.

Like just because you do something one way, Russel doesn't mean that it's the only way of getting it done, but sometimes our mind can be so limited that we think it's that soul and it's not. And it's so nice when you see other people go through the process. You even learn from that. It allows you to be a better human, a better parent if you have kids.

You know, it just, it's such a business is such a sacred thing to have, and a workplace is so sacred because you spend so much time there. So it's really important that you create an environment that that works, that allows happiness and joy and productivity and results to occur. I believe that positivity does that.

I believe that. I don't wanna go in a tantrum, but there's so much there that we can.

Russel Lolacher: Well, I'm kind of curious though, because immediately I thought when I was gonna ask the question that you would go deep into mindset, but you're talking specifically about sitting within your guardrails, your lane. I'm kind of curious, how do you connect the two or do you think it's strictly about sticking to what you know and what you're good?

Johanna Laurent: Well, a great team, right? A a we have a, a great leaders create leaders. Great leaders create leaders. I read that too. One of, I'm a big heavy reader. Can't tell which book I read, but I did. And that's powerful because when leaders create leaders, then I can I'm not micromanaging. It to expand to a higher, you know.

Hire. So when I say that, it's like everybody, and it's so funny because it's when you, I'll give you an example. We had a, we had to meet a deadline yesterday, right? And one of the people that in the team, he can be a little negative, like a little downer. And before he used to really upset me. I didn't have the tools be to deal with it Russel. So I used to judge him.

Even though he's a downer, he brings a lot to the table. So instead of reacting to what he's saying, I listened to what he said and we were able to meet the deadline, cross the finish line, and hit a home run. Because I didn't, I used to stop people, my employees stop people if they were. If they were, if they were saying something negative or it didn't land right with me, and I would never listen to the entire statement, I would interrupt them.

And now I've learned to step back and allow people to speak and allow people to be. And when I do that, I see the gem in that conversation because I know that I'm causing my whole reality.

Russel Lolacher: I love that. How would you confer, how would you compare being positive with the negative of positive in the workplace, the toxic positivity, the forced cheerfulness? What is the difference? It, it sometimes helps me define things. If I te if we focus on what, it's not as much as what it is. So in contrast, we work in a lot of organizations that are like, Hey, everything's great. Don't look over here. Like it's very much a focusing on how it should be rather than what it is. How do we, how do we differentiate?

Johanna Laurent: That's inauthentic. Positivity. That's not authentic. Positivity. When you are authentic, something sparks. When you're inauthentic it, it just doesn't move because it's yeah. Do you wanna say, wake up? Today's a great day. Yes. I always wake up. Today's a great day. It's a great day. It doesn't mean I'm not gonna have challenges, it doesn't mean I'm not gonna have obstacle, but.

My spirits are high, my spirits open. I'm open. So when the obstacles come, I don't see it as a breakdown. I see it as an opportunity or there's something there. It's how I observe things. So when you have, but when you have that, that, that phony positivity, if I go, I have a, a, I have an employee that was going through a lot of very tough time, and I would read with him in the morning, but I would also, when I, when I would read with him and I would see that he was hurting himself, I would share times when I hurt myself.

And, and, and I would share my experience so that he can see things differently. That's authentic positivity. Positivity is about being honest and but being, being honest in the light. Oh, I love that Russel being honest in the light. You get it. It's not being honest in the darkness. It's not me saying, Russel, you are great.

And then me going, Russel's a jerk. That's toxic positivity. That's a, that's inauthentic. That's not gonna work. Or saying, I'm just saying that it's gonna work, but I really don't believe it's gonna work. I just said that at the meeting because I wanted to get out and have my coffee. That's toxic positivity.

That's not honesty. So you have to be authentic with the light that, so that you can shine it outward and among others and create space for to shine.

Russel Lolacher: Why do you think a lot of leaders and organizations subscribe to that whole? Everything is awesome. Everything's great, everything's fantastic, and they, as opposed to being realistic.

Johanna Laurent: Okay, so we have to, that's a very fine line. Russel, being realistic can have a limited conversation, a limited way of being. So when you are saying be realistic, are you telling them to that it's impossible? Are you, are you demeaning their belief? Are you trying to let them know that just 'cause you don't see it or you don't believe it could be done and you're putting it out on them?

So leaders that do wanna create the positive environment of this is a great organization. They're, they could stand in a mantra. They could stand in a mantra. It's okay for them to have that. It's okay for me to be this positive leader because this positive leader has been in business for 20 something years because of my positivity.

So. There's nothing wrong with that. You don't wanna be, you don't want the leader of the organization or the leader walking in, lack or disbelief, or that's not possible because then maybe a way of doing it is not possible. But if that person is in the belief that it is, anything is possible, they'll find a way of bringing the company forward.

In their mind, they're seeking a way. So what you seek, you attract.

Russel Lolacher: So it's not, not being realistic, it's just looking at opportunity. Looking at there is, there's a way forward even through realism. So for myself, I've always been a realist and, but I've always had aspirations to be an optimist. Because to be honest, I feel like optimists are the ones that are moving things forward.

Pessimists don't. They just sit in the mire and just point at all the negatives and don't move anything forward. They just sit here. It's not only being realistic, it's also adding that additional lens to that realism and the wah wah droopy. I'm showing my age here a bit. The, the, the, the sort of focusing on the darkness as opposed to what you've said, which is focusing on the light. How do you feel that that might go too far? Because there's gonna be people in the organization going, if you paint everything with a positive brush, you're not being realistic because there's a lot, and I get it from an inspiration motivation standpoint, from the head of the company because they need everybody to buy into the vision and mission. But there are people in the organization that might be looking at that going, but they're delusional. They see like even if they're not. But that there is that diversity lens where they're like, I don't connect with that because I'm not that way. How do you address that? I'm, I'm skipping ahead here too, a a little bit about how to engage with culture and teams, but I'm kind of curious in the way you're, you're describing it.

Johanna Laurent: I've learned so much to be this way. I've, I've, and I've seen so many miracles because I am this way, because I train my mind to see pods, opportunities versus. Lack. It's a constant training. I'm constantly growing. I'm constantly moving forward. I'm sure to the last day I'm gonna, they, they, a little bit of doubt does show up in my mind, but I don't, I go, okay, that's doubt.

That's not real. I, I, I, I've become, the goal is to become an observer of your life, Russel, so you can see what works and what doesn't work. But this is so powerful because what happens is, one of the business partners that I have, he tends to go the negative route, but he acts in a positive action.

Russel Lolacher: Hmm. Interesting.

Johanna Laurent: if I, when I allow him to be. It allows me to be, and my outcome, most of the times come out. They, they win, I win, but I could get into friction that the way he delivers the opportunity is so negative that my mind used to shut it down. I used to lock myself in the office, but now since I've grown and done more work internally.

See the good in him. I'm able to be in a meeting, allow him to be and still see the jewel, and see a direction, or see something that he gives to me, and still focus on the outcome and add it on to the outcome I want and for it to come out. So pessimists and negativity, it's there to cause growth. It could be looked at like that.

You could grow with it. Don't, don't fight it. Just say, okay, it's here. What am I gonna do with it? Hmm. I'm gonna, I'm gonna push myself even bigger. It's all you, Russel. It's all within.

Russel Lolacher: I love Johanna, that you got super positive about pessimism. That's basically what just happened there. So I wanna dig into that self work though, because as you said, the first place we need to start is with ourselves, and that's where I wanna dig in. So what would you recommend to a leader, to somebody in the workplace? What inner work? Would you recommend that they start doing? 'cause you don't just start this tomorrow. There is foundational work. I'm assuming there's foundational work that we need to do to ensure that our optimism is authentic and not performative, or not avoidant. So what do we do as individuals down that path?

Johanna Laurent: We have to stop. We have to stop pretending. We have to stop. Like you have to take a look and say, okay, your body talks to you. Your life speaks to you. If you are looking at the life that you've created and it's not what you want, then we need to do some work as leaders. It.

You know, I just wanted to get this lifetime right? I wanted to make sure that I was in communion with God. I wanted to make sure that I became the best person God created me to be. I wanted to make sure that I made a difference in this life, that if I came across someone that was. My liking that I looked in my heart and found empathy for that person instead of just push aside like they don't matter.

Mattering to me was important and I wanted to make sure that others, but that I matter too. There's so much work I did on myself and how did I do? I just started reading. I would read, I would look at leaders that I wanted to, that were mentor, that they didn't even know they were mentoring me, that I, I would look, I would look at what books they read.

I would, I would look at their, the beauty of, right now I'm 60, so it was different back then. It's funny, when you were in Quest of becoming your greater self, things show up, books show up. You go to bookstore and you'll be like, Hmm, interesting book. And you pick it up. Life brings you the road that you wanna walk on.

You just have to know what you, where you wanna walk, how you wanna walk, who you wanna be. And some you go, but I don't know. I don't know my purpose. I dunno what I wanna do in this life. No worries. Don't get caught up in the how.

Get caught up in who you choose to be. Identify a couple things. If you choose to be wealthy, if you choose to be honest, if you choose to make a difference, start there. Start, start who you wanna be and the how and the journey will become. I never imagined in my lifetime that I was gonna write a book, that I was gonna be in business for 25 years, I've done, I've done not me.

my life, I've seen so many Miracle Russel, God used me to bring lights to like an undeveloped countryside. I, you know, I, I've been able to make a difference, but it's really through me becoming more of me. And everybody really wants the same thing. When we really narrow it down, we wanna love, be love, and make a difference.

I know and business is like that. We wanna start business because we wanna grow, we wanna be successful, we wanna provide for our families. Some of us wanna really make a difference. Some of us wanna build schools, some wanna do like some massive changes in the world, but change begins within whatever you wanna see in the world.

Russel, whether it's. Kindness, more wealth. Whatever it is you wanna be or whatever it's you wanna see, you have to be it. You have to focus on becoming it, and it'll be everything your whole kingdom of Heaven is within. It took a lot of work to get here, and I'm still working on it, trust me, every day, but I'd rather work on this.

So when I get there, hopefully I left all the gifts God gave me behind on.

Russel Lolacher: I like your attachment to learning because truthfully, there's a lot of people here who are not religious, that are listening to this, who are not looking as God as a thing for them. I'm agnostic, so I, I look at this going, okay. Not to say that I don't disagree with you, 'cause that is absolutely working for you. But what works for somebody else might be different, but still connecting to something bigger than themselves. Purpose, vision, I mean, we can absolutely adjust it. It's still, it's all working in the same direction. What do you do on a daily basis? Is it affirmations? Is it connecting to that? Larger something.

What is it that you do? I'm trying to operationalize this. Positivity is what I'm trying to do is it's great to go, I want to change the world, but people have bad days, people have frustrations and positivity is not always in their face all the time to, to fuel from. They need to do the work. To your point, they need to do the work.

And you've done a lot of work. So how would you operationalize it? Because I know your book is heavily into affirmations and really focusing on. You. So is that where you, is that the path you would recommend for people?

Johanna Laurent: Yes, but let's, let's talk about that. There's a lot of tools that you can use. I, you also have to be very disciplined. You gotta be disciplined. You have to be disciplined. You have to have structure. Structure is good. Structure is great. You know, I get up in the morning, first thing I do, I go into my gratitude.

Stop. This is a brand new day. I get to get up, I get to walk it up. I go into a massive gratitude. Even taking a shower, like I could take my own shower. I have soap, I have water. The other day while I was brushing my teeth, I started to weep because I realized that people don't have water, and the water was just running in my house and I was like, wow, focus on that gratitude.

I'm building a well too. Maybe that's why the, the connection came in, but you know, my thing is. It's gratitude. Then I go into my office. I, if I say I'm gonna be up at eight o'clock or I'm gonna be at my desk, I make it a point that I'm on my desk. Your word is everything. If you say you're gonna finish something, finish an email.

I don't care if it's 1159, 8:00 PM Finish it. Keep your word because when you keep your word to yourself, things start manifesting because then whatever you say. It's created your word, gratitude. I read a lot. I read a lot. I would constantly get a book. I would read two or three pages every morning, would sit on my desk and I would read it.

And the funny thing is, whatever I would, whatever that book was, was, was about at that, at that chapter. It would be something that I needed in the morning. Now, some people can use the holy book, some people can use. Self-help books. Some people can use a novel, it doesn't matter. Something that's gonna bring up your positivity, though, you know, not something that's gonna trigger and keep you into lack and starry and, and circumstances You don't want that.

You wanna choose things that lift you up, or if you don't wanna read, spend five minutes dancing to your favorite song. Ignite the Joy within. The joy brings more joy. Go.

Russel Lolacher: No, no, I, I. You actually said something right before I was gonna ask. It was, don't feed the Beast. Don't. 'cause there are so many people out there that just keep reading and watching videos that perpetuate a negative narrative for themselves. It, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy, the world's crap. So they keep reading things that reinforce the world as crap, as opposed to what you're talking about, which is find things that enhance, that bring joy, that make you think differently in a positive light.

So there's so much intentionality. This as well. Is that what you read and what you put in your, basically what you're putting in your body should not be garbage. It needs to be things that perpetuate the positivity you're trying and aiming to put out in the world. I just, I love the intentionality of what you're talking about because it, and, and that intentionality will provide opportunity. 'cause you're like, you're saying it's like I want, oh, suddenly these books are just showing up. We can call that whatever we like. But there is something to be said for if. Like people have vision boards, people have mantras, people have whatever they have, things will come to you if you put yourself in environments that perpetuate that positivity.

So I'm, I'm glad you nailed that so firmly. Trevor Noah, I was at a work conference not too long ago, and Trevor Noah said something really interesting. He said, everybody's an optimist. And they're like, what do you mean? I know somebody pessimist, you get up in the morning every day, don't you? I'm like, oh, I love that. Because you, you obviously think something's gonna happen in the day that is worth getting up for, and so everybody, even the smallest amount are optimists to some degree. So I love that.

Johanna Laurent: I didn't wanna interrupt you.

Russel Lolacher: No, no. I love, I love that.

Johanna Laurent: As long as you have life, Russel, there's a light within. There's a light within, and some of us throw the towel too quickly on life. We throw that towel, we throw that towel because we think we don't matter. We don't think we're deserving of having the light that we deserve.

We think so they, therefore, we get caught up in that, in that, in that net. Lack of positivity, or it's a world's wall, or it's my parents. I had really tough, I had a tough childhood I could go into. I can make you cry. Well, so you'd be like, oh my God, you poor woman. That's not my life. I was born into it. But that's not my outcome.

My outcome is what could I take out of that and who I become? I can control the outcome. I can control the destiny. Now, Russel, consistency is the key. You have to, it's not about doing it Monday or 90 minutes and then not doing it for the rest of the week. I'd rather you do every day a little bit. It makes more of a difference if you do every day a little bit for you.

Before you know it, you won't even recognize yourself and it is you. It's just you lit up Russel.

Russel Lolacher: But

Johanna Laurent: When you a chance. I don't wanna, I don't wanna be forward. I wanna make sure, because you're, you're leading this. This is why I created, everything is perfect.

Russel Lolacher: right.

Johanna Laurent: This is why I did it. This is why, because I knew what I needed to keep going.

So I wanted to make sure. It's tough. I'm not gonna tell you. It's not tough. I'm not gonna tell you. Life can be like moments that you are like, wow. Is hard, but as long as you are alive, life never stops. And the thing is to not get stuck outside of Life Force. You wanna get yourself back on track with Life Force to experience still more beauty that life has to show you.

If you are still here, you are meant to live. If you take yourself out of life force, whatever you wanna call it, universe, God, whatever it is, but I'll call it life force, right? If you take yourself outta life force, of course you're gonna, whether of course things are gonna get hard, of course things are gonna go down because life gives life.

If you look at a flower, how beautiful it becomes, right? It's beautiful as it opens up and it's blossom. That's life. And what you wanna be is you wanna be connected to that and you wanna give yourself a chance. A lot of it, Russel, is the lack of not thinking you are good enough. You are, you are magnifi.

And that allowing yourself to be, it's where you start seeing when you're dancing, you're happy. You don't even know why. Because Russel, we have a responsibility because when we're not our greatness or we're not our light, we project onto others. We're making that we don't want, we're making the difference that was done unto us.

That made us sad and made us go down the rabbit hole. That wasn't good. We, that's not who we're, we love people. The world is a lot good than what we see, but we have to play our part. We have to do our responsibility. I could go on and on, but I just wanna leave you at that.

Russel Lolacher: Well, it's a good transition into what else I wanna talk about is about responsibility, because even though we're focusing on ourselves and we're doing the work, and we're learning, and we're changing mindset on this, we are also responsible in the workplace for teams, people that report to us, people that we work with. How do we bring this positivity that we've worked on into an environment where, I don't know, it might not align or it, it, it might be completely new as well to this team that's like, where is this coming from? How do we connect the dots between the work we are doing with the team that we are trying to uplift?

Johanna Laurent: Having no expectation because when you have the expectation, you're gonna get disappointed. So what happened is here, okay, Russel, today's gonna be your day. You start changing the world, right? Bingo. First thing happens. That person is a nightmare. You come across that person, Ahuh. Of course it's gonna work.

Give it a chance. So have no expectation and you focus in developing to be the best leader you can be. And it'll catch on. Energy Connects. Energy creates energy transmits. Before you know it, this person's reading a book that you read or. Hey, maybe you wanna give them as a, or maybe you wanna, you have a different conversation with them, that you realize something different about them and you realize you have something in common.

Have no expectation on the outcome because of the work that you're doing. Have no e. As you develop and grow yourself, you'll see it in others. Now, the work face, we have deadlines, we have results. So we were like, come on Johanna. I get this all the time. Come on, let's go. Let's, we have to, we have a deadline to happen.

We have money to make, we have bills are paid, right? Yes, we do. And it's all gonna get done. But why not get it done in a way that causes, that's with ease. That's it. So when these people go home, they're better people to their families and their loved ones. Why don't we, why don't we just look at it that way?

Look, look at we're creating here. And if someone's having a hard day, let them vent a little. They're having a hard moment. It doesn't mean let's not, let's not throw them under the bus. Having a moment. You know, when after they finish my thing, go. Are you okay? Listen, I bought you a favorite coffee. I noticed you're having a hard moment.

Be present. When you are present, you'll know how to act and speak to make a difference around you. All you have to do is be present. It's funny and it's a little whisper, Russel, those in a present moment, you'll hear the whisper of how to make things better. It's a whisper. It's a, I don't know how to explain that, but it is a whisper that comes from within and intuition.

You act on, the more you act on it, and the more results you see, the more you gonna start inner.

Russel Lolacher: I love talking about the space you're creating because you are. It's acknowledging that not everybody has great taste. Positivity is not. 24 7. We have to acknowledge that there are people having a hard time on our teams, but giving them the space is positivity. It is allowing that celebration or that struggle to sort of happen in that space, but we can't do it if we're walled off going. To your point when we started this conversation, which is you are not like me, so it must be wrong. So to come back to that point is you don't, you're not positive like me. So there's something that might be wrong, and I love that you're saying, no, that's not the case at all. It's you should provide space for that. So what are the teams feeling? If you are doing your job as a leader and you're creating positivity, and to your point, modeling that positivity so that they are being inspired to do their own journeys. What is a team feeling in that? I, I, I feel valued. Like I'm seeing the word valued. I'm seeing

Johanna Laurent: I am Adam.

Russel Lolacher: is it, what is it that you've seen?

Johanna Laurent: It allows them to become great. It allows their inner potential to rise.

Russel Lolacher: Mm-hmm.

Johanna Laurent: I have someone without disclosing that went from addiction, a heavy addiction heavy to one of my biggest leaders. Married a grandfather, a responsible leader. His whole life changed all because allow people to go through the process when you, you know what, it's the same with the universe.

Allows the universe, gives us grace, right?

You to this.

Russel Lolacher: You are making me think of communication because just the way you're talking, the way you're expressing yourself. Communication's, one of the, the major. Foundations of this show, it's self-awareness, which we've talked about. Situational awareness, understanding our teams, but communication. What does communication look like?

Workplace language look like if we're trying to be positive and also avoid toxic positivity language. What? What are, what are some, what are some things we should be looking for, both positive and negative.

Johanna Laurent: This is really important. If you're angry, let's say I'm angry, something happened, it cause anger with me, whatever. I have to pause. Pause. Johanna. Because I could treat someone, I could take that anger and come off and say something like, I want you to get that work done instead of pause. You are angry. You are not right now.

Should be speaking. Control yourself. Guide yourself. Take a walk, get a glass of water. Shift, shift find for Actually, why did I get so angry? Why did that bother me so much? I don't resolve that anger. I'm gonna project it. I'm going to treat someone terribly and then I'm gonna have to clean that up. And sometimes you can lose the opportunity of cleaning that up.

So really? So, and you could say something to someone in a very horrible thing and they don't forget it because you know what's crazy, Russel? Someone could tell you, I love you a million times and you get it, but someone can say, Russel, I hate you and that I hate you will live longer in your mind than the thousands.

I love you. I told you. So. That's how careful we have to be with our anger and our negativity. That's tic. Not, not, I dunno. We can do this. That's different. That's you're being honest. I don't see a way. Okay, I get it. You don't see it, but be with me now. See, when you're being honest, if I don't see a way, I, I don't, I don't get it, Johanna.

I don't, I don't get what we should call that client. I don't understand. When you're being, when you get the space of someone, to be honest. It doesn't mean they're negative, it's just that they're explaining to you. I just don't see it. But if they're, if you don't give them the, of them saying that, I don't see it back of their mind.

She's hate this. See that stuff that happen there, that's unn. So, but if you give the space of someone to express themselves and listen, then if you really listen without having an answer. Mind if you really listen to them. The next thing you say to them, push.

Russel Lolacher: there's a lot. No, there's a lot of people, a lot of leaders that will go down this path, become positive, have their teams down that path, but they're still working in an organization that's so focused on results. They don't care if you're negative or positive as long as you're hitting a check box. As long as the widgets getting made or the service is getting delivered, that's all that matter. It's about the bottom line. How do you navigate a culture as a person that's trying to show positivity, not masking, trying to be genuine and authentic for your teams, and yet, and yet the executive or just the, the way the world operates in that organization might not align.

Johanna Laurent: You are hearing a lot of CEOs now in their seventies and eighties and sixties saying how they regret that, how they regret not making family first, how they regret the difference that they didn't make. You hear a lot of that now you hear a different conversation you hear. You hear a lot of com, you lose.

You start losing your top employees, you can have that can happen. And the way it happens is, so if you are at a job that you don't like, always be your best anyway. If you really trust that the universe is gonna provide for you, be the best and it'll come. The opportunities came to me by just me the best.

I never imagined that I was gonna be president of a company or running a team. I didn't. I was just always my best Russel and the opportunity came. So as a leader, a lot of leaders, if you look and you start looking at YouTube a lot, a lot of these leaders are saying, a lot of these videos out there, they're saying, I made a mistake.

You know, or, or they're living their, their last chapter of their life going, I treated these people horrible. Look what I did. Haunting memories. That's what you have to be careful. You wanna make sure that you're creating memories that are gonna be beautiful at the end of this journey of your life.

Because how you treat others, I don't care if it's a workplace, I don't care if it's at McDonald's online. I don't care if it's at Starbucks. I don't care. I don't care where it's We'll transmit back to you. It's what? It's, I didn't make that law. Everybody knows it. You can experiment with it. It is what it's, so I notice a lot of CEOs saying that you can get results and create a great environment.

It is possible, and I think these new leaders are into doing their homework, and if they're not, then that's why I'm out here to make sure that, you know, I, I could only do my best, Russel, I could only be my best leader, you know, so that I can become an inspiration. I don't wanna tell people what to do. I wanna be an inspiration for.

Russel Lolacher: How do you integrate this into a culture then? So we talked about consistency. How do you see an organization? Maybe it's a pie in the sky, maybe it's something you've seen where maybe it's recognition programs, like how do you support positivity within the workplace to perpetuate it and to to not get into the performative side of it and to actually genuine hope and positivity.

Johanna Laurent: Bringing in speakers. I think it's important. I love when they do events. I love when they do family events. I love when they do like really look at different things. Look at different companies, see what they're doing, find different. See what they're doing. What programs do they have? What programs do they have for people?

People love? Listen, what's beautiful about. Life. I love companies. Companies create environments for people that have structure and to come in and be a community. How great is that, right? That's wonderful. People that are lonely and no place to go and just get up in the morning and have no structure, that can cause a lot.

Not, you know what I mean? Like having companies, it's a beautiful thing. So if we're gonna have a company, let's create a company that has an environment that is causing that. We're getting the results. Everybody knows we're here to get the results. So how are we get the results? Have a box. Employee suggestions, you know, things that people that not confidential, that go to the leaders.

That employees can write down suggestions. What would, what would make the environment a better workplace? Like start being on discovery, go into the discovery of how to create the result. You'll even create bigger results, the result or bigger in the work environment, and having people be joyful of coming to work.

Not always gonna be, I know. Best career. There are days you're like, but the thing is a career. The majority of the, so.

Russel Lolacher: How do you. Sorry. I was just gonna say, how do you know it's working? So I love the idea of bringing in a community. I love the idea of connecting it beyond the workplace because there's no such thing as work-life balance or just life. It's just, it's your existence. How do you know this is working, Johanna?

Like you are trying to move the needle on maybe a less than positive environment. You're implementing these policies and, and introducing new connections. If we're being trying to be consistent, how do we move the needle? Is this something that's measurable?

Johanna Laurent: You will see it. You'll see a little by little. Remember, no expectation, Russel. Whatever you do, no expectation, because when you have expectation, you don't get to see what's working because you wanna see it only come about your way. When you have no hows or no expectation, you are more open to seeing the results.

No expectation at all. So you just have to and, and do your homework like, okay, wow. Suggestion box. Hmm, this is good. We'll try This came out great. Oh, that speaker that, that we brought in. Wow. She really gave a great speech. Everyone was really happy for I saw it in their faces. I saw the results.

Maybe we wanna do, we wanna do this next month. Let's do an outing. Let's do a, a, a dinner for the leaders. Let's, let's just, let's show appreciation. That is what you said. Appreciation one. Percent appreciate because what happens is you don't wanna be the leader that takes home all the money and, and then you go home to your family and then everybody else is suffering.

That's not what you wanna create. It's not gonna, at the end of the day, it's gonna fall apart. That's not what you're here to do. You're here to create a win for yourself and others, and that's why you always have to make sure that, what outcome do you want? And then go about step by step. It doesn't have all at let s.

Russel Lolacher: So I love wrapping up my conversations. Thank you so much this, Johanna, with the, the actionable question. So somebody listening to this is going, okay. Okay. I hear you Johanna. I hear what you're saying about positivity. I know I need to move in this direction. What do I do tomorrow? What is the baby step that at least starts me down the path of getting this right.

What would you recommend to that person?

Johanna Laurent: Can I talk about my book?

Russel Lolacher: You can, you can, but buying a book isn't absolutely you can, but buying a book obviously isn't,

Johanna Laurent: No. No. I don't wanna do that. I don't. I'm because, wanna be respectful? You could cut this off because I

Russel Lolacher: No, no, no.

Johanna Laurent: none of us hope. The most important thing to me is that I make a difference.

Russel Lolacher: Hmm.

Johanna Laurent: That's the most important thing to me. So what you do is make a list of what's working and what's not working. Okay? Take a, have an honest audit of self honesty.

What am I not happy with? What am I happy with? And let's take a look. I'm gonna keep what's working and what's not working. I'm gonna tackle them one by one. One by one. If, if my, if my, if, if, if my health is not working, then what am I gonna do? Maybe I'll just start with my breakfast, something small. I'm gonna change that because that's not working.

That's just not working what I'm doing in the morning. I'm in. It's having a bad effect in my lunchtime, you know what I mean? But that's it. Wait, it's my mindset. I'm a negative. I, I wake up, I, I meet the household negative. I'm angry. I'm yelling, change that. I, why I wake up like wake, I'm gonna wake up and I'm gonna look in the mirror.

And when I'm brushing my teeth and I'm gonna tell myself three things I'm grateful for. And when I, when I, when I'm at that mirror and I'm done with all three things, I'm gonna tell myself I love myself because you know what? I love myself and I'm willing to look at and when I'm, I'm, I love the fact that I'm willing to look with Ben and I'm willing to make a change.

So I'm proud of myself. Stop right there. No big deal. In my office, I'm gonna get rid of everything. If it, if it's an office environment or wherever it is, or my classroom, or my, wherever it is, wherever you're, you're spending time in, I'm gonna look around and I'm gonna take, I'm gonna get rid of everything.

I'm gonna declutter the negativity. I'm gonna declutter things that make me sad. I'm gonna declutter things that makes me angry. Office space or my workspace, I'm doing.

Russel Lolacher: And let's be perfectly honest, Johanna, there's this book called Everything is Perfect that has a hundred positive affirmations that may be able to help you down that, but you're not reading it all tomorrow. But it is a good way to start. You're not doing a hundred in a day, but you have to start somewhere. Thank you so much. This is Johanna Laurent. She is a speaker, entrepreneur, and founder of Positive Phrases. She also has the book that I just mentioned, which is Everything is Perfect. A collection of 100 positive Affirmations to cultivate a joyful, mindful, and positive life, the perfect gift for self-care, positivity, and every day.

Thank you so much for being here, Johanna.

Johanna Laurent: You are welcome. Thank you, Russel.