Beyond Busyness: Turning Time Poverty Into Time Wealth

We’ve been taught that being busy means being successful — but what if it’s actually holding us back? In this episode of Relationships at Work, host Russel Lolacher talks with performance optimization expert and author Peggy Sullivan about how to escape “time poverty” and achieve more by doing less.

Peggy shares how leaders can recognize the traps of constant hustle, eliminate low-value activities, and replace them with purpose-driven priorities. From tackling meeting overload to setting better boundaries and aligning time with values, this conversation offers practical steps to shift from burnout to balance — and from busyness to true productivity.

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Transcript

Russel Lolacher: And on the show today, we have Peggy Sullivan and here is why she is awesome. She's a global keynote speaker, author, and performance optimization management expert.

Her methods have transformed teams in Fortune 500 companies like Google, Bank of America, and Blue Cross Blue Shield. She's the founder and CEO of She Can! exclamation mark helping their personal and professional power, and she's written a book you should really check out, especially for those that feel like they don't have a lot of time.

It's called Beyond Busyness, How to Achieve More by Doing Less. Hello, Peggy.

Peggy Sullivan: Good morning. I am really excited to be here today.

Russel Lolacher: Busy. I'm too busy, this is too busy. I can't do that 'cause I'm too busy. How often do we hear that in the workplace? I've got my opinions, but I'm super curious to hear how you think we should be tackling these, these things. But before we get there, Peggy, I have the question. I like to ask all of my guests to start off, which is, what is your best or worst employee experience?

Peggy Sullivan: I'm gonna share my best explore experience and it, it was when I was working for a very large international manufacturer, and when I started the job the CEO of the division of the workspace that I was working out wanted me to do a local program for that particular plant and office space. He was really passionate about it and he basically asked me to do four months worth of work in three weeks. 'Cause he really wanted to get it going. And so I did and we did get it going and it was working well and he was so ecstatic. And so I walked back to my desk about six weeks after I had just started the job and there was a note from the CEO thanking me, telling me how much he was like over the top happy that we started this program.

And within six weeks of working, I got a pretty nice bonus. So I'd have to say like listening to what people need and what they want and what they're passionate about. And I had asked him, what would be a home run in the first three months? And he told me, and wow. That was amazing.

Russel Lolacher: It's so funny how often we're in those situations and I, I, at least maybe this is my experience, I find it funny that sometimes we think we have a lot of freedom to do whatever we want. Sometimes we'll even talk to executives and they're like, no, no, come up with something new. Come up with something different.

But they tell you what they want as well. And then when those same people come to me and go, what should I do? Go do exactly what they just told you they wanted. Don't come up with these new ideas. Pitch them, offer them. But at the end of the day, they're telling you exactly what they want. Listen to them.

That is the most important thing you can do, because that's literally what they're, they're illustrating. How have you carried that on with you in your rest of your work? 'cause that obviously has jumped out at you.

Peggy Sullivan: Yeah, I mean, I really believe that God has given us two ears and one mouth for a reason, and I used to think that talking made me powerful. But now I realize listening makes me powerful because you learn so much about the people, their needs, their wants, their likes, their dislikes. So I've, I've, and for me, I'm a speaker, so I wanna talk all the time.

It's like I literally have to sit on my hands, not to open my mouth and, and carry the conversation, most of the time. But I've really disciplined myself to listen. So that I can really understand the person sitting across from me.

Russel Lolacher: Absolutely love that. Absolutely love that. Especially, I mean, the name of the show is called Relationships at Work, and if you're not building those relationships through learning and listening, I think you've got a bigger problem 'cause talking just gets in the way of that connection. So thank you for that, Peggy.

I appreciate that story. So let's get into the busyness of it all. I do like starting all my shows with sort of setting the table as it were, and defining terms because we don't seem to define terms very much in the workplace. We like using a lot of them, but we don't define things. So, Peggy, from your research, from your book, from your experience, how are you defining busy in the workplace?

Peggy Sullivan: Right. Our hustle society tells us that busyness is good. It's a status symbol. You can't get into that doctor for eight months. He must be good. You know your next door neighbor goes to work at seven, gets home at 8:00 PM misses dinner with his kids. But hey, he's been promoted three times. So we're conditioned to think that busyness is good, but what we don't understand is the data behind busyness.

And so it's not that busyness is bad, it's when you hustle all the time without the proper fuel without, uh, the proper elimination of low value activities, you don't spend your time wisely, and that's why I really am focused on this subject I call time poverty and how to turn time poverty into time wealth. And time poverty is getting to your, under your day saying, ah, I didn't get done what I wanted to at work, or I'm behind on this project.

I really wanted to work out, but I, I just couldn't squeeze it in. I worked 11 hours today, I didn't mean to, but here I am. And so time poverty is a term that I developed, I cloned, and what I'd like to do is help people put themselves and get their time back. On average, the people I work with, the companies I coach, get back five to seven hours every week.

And it's really not all that hard. It's, it's the simple process. And people are always like thinking that it's complicated and it's harder and or it involves time management. Let me tell you guys, time management doesn't work. If time management worked, we would not have my latest stats show 95% of working people do not have time for what's important.

And 61 of them, 61% have such an overstuffed schedule that they cannot find time to do their work. So, I mean, we're obviously not getting this time management thing right? So I, I have a process that's about subtracting low value activities. Just get rid of them. If, if they don't add value, if you don't give or get value, why the heck are you doing it?

Yes. Two. I also learned that happiness is an addiction or happiness. Busyness is an addiction. We actually get this dopamine high when we get something done, when we check something off the list. And so we wanna do it again and again, again, and get that dopamine high. Even if it's something really small, like I tidied up my office, it makes us feel good.

I, I have customers who I coach who tell me at the end of the day, they put small, little dumb things on their list so it they can cross 'em off. 'cause it feels good. And so eliminating low value activities is really important. I worked with HR directors, industrial psychologists to understand sort of these 21 low value activities.

I've got a tool I call the Busy Barometer, but that's where we start, is understanding what your low value activities are. And they could be anything from, you let too many interruptions in you are stuck in the email rabbit hole. You're multitasking, you're not sleeping, you're not taking breaks.

The list goes on and on, but get rid of them. They're not helping you. Step two is what I call mojo making because busyness is an addiction and the American Psychiatric Association says it is because it is something that keeps us from doing what we normally would and should be doing. It's, it's just like this mosquito bite.

You just gotta scratch it. And so we need to replace this dopamine hit with something else. And our society reaches happiness. Uh, it's a destination, it's a thing. I will be happy when. And I wrote my first book on the Neurology of Happiness, and what I learned is that when you are happy, your brain lights up and it sends, uh, neurotransmitters to your body, basically giving you more focus.

More energy, the ability to fight chronic disease live longer, and you're more charismatic. I mean, think about it. People don't wanna be with gloom and doomers. They wanna be with happy people 'cause energy is contagious and negativity is contagious. So I always tell people, create a happiness ritual. And it could be something small, I, uh.

I have a dance party every morning in my fuzzy pink slippers for three minutes, and it just starts my day off, right? And, and at 11:00 AM I'll, uh, I'll eat dark chocolate and close my eyes and smell it, and it just makes me feel better. So they don't need to be big things. As a matter of fact.

When I worked at UnitedHealthcare, I, uh, tested them out in the workplace and we created workplace happiness rituals, and as a result of those customer service metrics improved 33% in six weeks. So they worked personally and professionally. So step two, mojo making. Go do something that lights you up.

And then step three is, is really what I call values vibing. And it's about the process of, uh, aligning what's important with how you spend your time. It's not time management. It then becomes values management. So I'm gonna take a pause.

Russel Lolacher: I appreciate that, Peggy. That's, that's a lot of information. That's really, really helpful information. Are we confused in the sense of what productivity is versus recognizing that where it tip, where's that tipping point? I think is what I'm trying to define is how do we know we're too busy? Because there is that tipping point.

Is it burnout? Is it you're sitting there and you feel shame that you're not filling your day every five seconds? Like what is it that we should be looking for to go, you know what, we're pursuing the wrong things.

Peggy Sullivan: That is a great question and most people don't know what their busy traps are, their low value activities are because they're habitual. They're just things we do. And we don't think twice about 'em. Like first thing in the morning, looking at your email and noticing, all of a sudden it's two hours later if you work from home and you didn't shower and you didn't begin, you didn't do anything.

And that's not how you intended to spend your morning. So that's why I, I worked to develop this busy barometer. That will scientifically do a two to three minute survey and identify your low value tasks. So it takes all the thinking out of it. But you know, I can tell you what some of the big ones are.

Not, not taking care of yourself. When you have no gas in your tank, you can't work to your optimization. Too many meetings. 83% of our working population spends 39% in meetings and 30% of them are productive. So you do the math. We spend so much time in unproductive meetings. If you don't add value or get value, you shouldn't be in that meeting and we need to raise our hand. We all abuse email. We need to train people that if it's important, please send me, but if you're just trying to cover your beautiful butt, please don't. I don't need to know. And, and so it's, it's, there's just lots of ways to uncover your, your low value activities, not multitasking, not letting interruptions in.

But if anybody might busy barometers free. So, when you post this, we can put a link to it and just go and see what your low value tasks are and, and start small. Eliminate one or two of them and you'll be like, holy cow. On average people get five to seven hours back in their work week by eliminating low value activities.

Russel Lolacher: Are we having this conversation more since COVID? Because I don't think these conversations were happening in the eighties and nineties when it was a badge of honor of I'm busy, and they were like, oh, you're busy. Oh, well then you must be super important as you were sort of. Alluding to at the top, is it becoming more of a problem to solve versus a badge of honor?

Peggy Sullivan: I think that COVID made us all take a step back and think about what we value. But I also think generations, many generations, the, the Gen Xers, the gen wires, the millennials, they're, they're kind of feeling a little bit different and they want to be purpose driven. And they want to add value and they want to have, some type of balance in their life.

And so they're looking for different things and they're telling us, they're raising their hands, telling us, Hey, this is what I need. But organizations really don't know how to cater to them yet, and their listening mechanisms are too standardized. To have an employee survey is great. But I say just poll 10 people into a conference room and ask 'em what they love about work, what they hate about work, what time they're wasting, what are their passions, what, what aspects of their job they love doing, what aspects of their job they wish they didn't have to do.

You could learn so much and wow, you take that data and implement it. And performance skyrockets every time.

Russel Lolacher: You, you start where I love starting, which is the, you gotta start with yourself before you can influence anything else. It's that, that the busy barometers you sort of mentioned, great free tool. I'll absolutely add it into the show notes. But how, as leaders can we reframe our relationship with time?

Because you've just mentioned time management, that's not a, that's not a thing that will really work. So how do we change how we perceive, uh, and look at more the values, uh, make it a little more rooted in values rather than an obligation?

Peggy Sullivan: Yeah. I do 1,001 workshops for leaders and people in management. Because when they learn behavior and they can share it, practice it, encourage it, then it usually cascades down and also it makes them more available. But l let me tell you something a, a little bit about values. I used to, when I first started my speaking career, I spoke on values.

And I remember getting in front of Google and asking the people in the audience, what are your values? And some people blurted out, I want family time. I wanna feel like I'm adding value at the job. Friendships. But people got really stuck. And then what they would do is they would, of course, Google, it was for Google, they Google their values and they'd look at what their neighbor was writing down.

And it made me realize that, this concept of values is just hard for all of us to wrap our head around, like, what is it? So what I love doing is really I did some market research. I researched 18,000 individuals and asked them what filled their cup and what they needed to have in their day.

So at the end of the day, they would say, this is a really great day on all fronts. And what I learned is that there are four core values, and as individuals we may sort of personalize 'em differently, but one of them is energy management, and that's about self-care and managing your mood. I'm a big, uh, a big proponent of what I call the mood elevator, and that is, if you're not at least a seven, make yourself a seven.

We can't all be tens. But you know, when you're bringing other people down, you're bringing yourself down. Do something to help yourself, count your blessings, whatever. So, energy management is one of them. Human connection is another one. We all know that there's a loneliness epidemic. The Surgeon General, a couple of years said, one in every 10 people is lonely on a weekly basis at work.

And even furthermore, loneliness is equivalent to smoking 13 cigarettes a day. Like, wow. That's, that's pretty huge. Now, granted, he did that right after. I think six months, seven months after COVID. But even so, I mean, human connection is, is really, really big. And, and then growth is another one.

And when I grew up we talked a little bit about being German. Uh, my father came home, came over from the Holocaust with nothing, and he had a work ethic, a really strong work ethic, and he always used to say to me, what. A day without learning something new is a lost opportunity. And I'd be like, dad, why do you say that?

And he said, when we do hard things, when we constantly learn all the time, we learn that we can do hard things and we grow our resiliency muscle and our ability to be able to pivot easily. So growth is also a core value. And then the last core value is authenticity. And that is from a little different lens than you would think.

It's not about me, but it's about we, and it's about, listening and being open-minded to suggestions and feelings of people that look different and behave different and have different ideas. And we, we also talked a little bit about the two ears in one mouth and, and so the four four values are energy management, their human connection, growth, and authenticity.

So people usually will use those as their four because, hey, if 18,000 people said, at the end of the day my cup is full, there must be kind of something to it. And what I encourage people to do is don't do anything hard or complex. Just keep a values report card. Put those four, four values down once a week.

Look at it and say to yourself, which 1:00 AM I not really doing a great job at? And like, I know for me, I was traveling last week, so I wasn't I, I wasn't exercising, I wasn't eating well. I just, well, my energy wasn't great, I had jet lag and so I really focused on my energy management the next week, and it just kind of keeps what's important in, in check.

So, failures management, not time management.

Russel Lolacher: I totally hear that, and I, I completely agree with that, but I also have the other side of my brain going, we're talking about busy and being too busy, and if we're already thinking we're too busy as it is and we're trying to manage this, then we hear that we have to add human connection and growth to it.

And they're like, oh, that's more stuff I gotta do. So where does boundaries come into this? Because that's something that we're gonna have to start saying no to things or saying yes to the right things. So how, how would you push that into the world of busyness?

Peggy Sullivan: That is a great question. And the boundaries actually come in actually in two ways. When you eliminate your low value activities, you get time back in your day for more important things. It's, it's actually. I've interviewed and coached thousands of people, and the statistics are like 98% of people when they eliminate low value activities, get five to seven hours back in their week.

So that's where to start. But I also tell people there's kind of a little thing that you can ask yourself before you say yes or before you say no. And, and that is, am I going to get value? Am I gonna give value? Because if you don't get value or give value, why are you doing it? It makes no sense. I I was, uh, asked to go to somebody's 60th birthday party across the world, and I really wanted to go, but it kind of was in the middle of a lot of my traveling and some other things and preparing for my second TEDx, and it just wasn't.

It wasn't right and I hated saying no, but when I framed no to her and gave her the reasons why she understood, and so, it was, it was like I'd get more value out of doing these other things than I would, celebrating her birthday and eating cake and flying halfway across the country.

Russel Lolacher: Defining our values is super important. Defining our boundaries is super important, but we're not living on an island. We usually are associated with teams or branches or divisions. So as leaders that are trying to wrap their brain around being, I wouldn't say less busy or the right type of busy, I guess might be the better way of phrasing this.

How are we modeling this for our teams so they can start unlearning these problems? What are, what are we showing up as? How are we communicating?

Peggy Sullivan: Yeah. It, it's funny, I, I coached somebody who was really struggling with email overload and he managed about 5,500 people across the world, and he really believed in what he called an open door policy. That was his values. And so he encouraged people to reach out to him with questions, issues, and problems.

And so every morning he'd wake up and he have six or 700 emails with questions, issues, and problems. And so I said to him, okay, well what would happen if once a week instead of you spending three hours answering those emails, you, you kind of had a town hall meeting where, because chances are, the questions that are asked are gonna be questions of other people and people are gonna wanna hear, and it's a team bonding experience.

So every problem has a solution. It, it really does. My dear friend Josh Linkner always says, find a way and, and you can find a way. Time poverty is really a problem, and actually it's very, very fixable with some behavioral changes.

Russel Lolacher: Is there any fear that that leader might come off looking, I don't know, disengaged or uncommitted or doesn't care enough about the work? Because I mean, we are talk again, they don't work on their own. The team might have their own perspectives of him or her.

Peggy Sullivan: Unfortunately when you, when you follow this framework that I'm suggesting, you actually have more time to connect and human connection as a core value forces you to connect with people and really listen and understand. I had a friend, Randy, when I worked at Blue Cross Blue Shield. He had a really big project.

He worked out of Buffalo, New York, and he was afraid he wasn't gonna get it done. So at four 30 he pulled everybody into the office and said, we need to work on this as a team and get it done. It's really important. So around six o'clock, they hear a knock on the door. They open the door. It's a security guard basically saying there's a snowstorm and a travel ban.

You cannot go anywhere. And so Randy's thinking to himself, this is great. We're just gonna work through this project. We're gonna get it done. Life is good. And then he looked around the table. And he realized everybody was really, really exhausted. And even more than being totally, thoroughly exhausted, when he started looking at them, he realized that their relationships were transactional. He didn't know what lit them up. He didn't know what they valued. He didn't know about their families. So they spent five hours talking openly about what they loved, what they hated, what they valued, and they went home.

And every employee that was stuck overnight and one would think that would not be a pleasant experience, said it was one of the best experiences they ever had in their life. But the reality is I'm a delegate. So the thing that really, really resonates with me is that Randy, his employee engagement metrics, and he changed nothing else in the department, went from being the lowest in the company.

They actually improved 43% in in three months, and he can't attribute it to anything else except for the fact that, the team really built a comradery and an understanding and it just helps. So, I say, actually there are ways to improve connecting. And you'll have more time when you're spending time on what's important.

Russel Lolacher: I like that you hammered home that active listening and listening isn't just about the words, but also the body language. It is about the environment in which you're working. It's those social cues that you may, that aren't directed at you, but directed at others and really understanding your team. I mean, you hammered home the relationships at work piece, Peggy, I mean, I'm gonna tear up.

That's the, that's really the focus of how we move forward. So how do we stop, go ahead...

Peggy Sullivan: Can we just chat a little bit about that? 'cause I actually like to pick your brain on that. One of the things I like to do when I'm in a meeting, and especially when there's like eight to 10 people. Is, I like to look how they're sitting in their chair and what they're doing with their arms and whether they're leaning in or Yeah. Or leaning out and where their phone is. And. If I'm leading the meeting, I really like to start to ask questions and kind of force those people who aren't leaning in or who look disengaged to to engage. But what do you do? What do you recommend? I, I'd love to pick your brain about that one.

Russel Lolacher: I think the most, one of the most insulting things you can do as a leader in a room is having your phone on the table during a meeting. I think, but people do it. Even if you turn it over upside down people, it's still because what you're telling everybody else in the room is they're just as important until somebody more important calls or texts or emails like, sure you have my attention until somebody more important and is paid more than you will try to get my attention.

So I think that speaks volume. So anybody that just put the phone away, be in the moment, show people how important it is that they are to you and, and, and, and to the team. Uh, leaning in is super important. Just, yeah, and, and open body language. I think body language is so vital because, to your point earlier, it's better when we're listening and not talking, especially when somebody else has the stage.

So if we're. Our, our body language is open. We are, just even just how we physically show up. We're not slunched over, but at the same time, we're not rigid. I think there's, there's something we could be looking at in ourselves in how, what we're communicating in our stance, as well.

Peggy Sullivan: Well, thank you for that. I just learned some new things from you.

Russel Lolacher: I appreciate that immensely. So what are we rewarding, Peggy? Is it the, if we're not rewarding the busy people, so what are we rewarding with our teams now?

Peggy Sullivan: Well, actually our reward systems do reward the busy people.

Russel Lolacher: No, that's, I'm trying to say, what should we be doing differently, because that seems to be the only way we do things these days.

Peggy Sullivan: Yeah. I, I, I, I think that it, it should be more about progress, not about being busy, because if you're not working, like results, bottom line results, that's what we should be measuring and rewarding. And when somebody does something that is really positive. We need to give kudos to them. I, I like to write thank you notes, personal thank you notes.

Sometimes I'll give a goofy little gift or I'll put a post-it note, I do goofy things in the workplace, like, put post-it notes with some happy thought. Around, or if you've gotten something done, put it on the board, something you're proud of, put it on the board. So I think, CE braiding real results is, is really, really important.

I think that we, our traditional ways to measure in, in, in employee performance in the traditional employee workforce studies, they don't work. And I also think, and I just started working with a company called Shea Wellness and they really taught me a lot about flow state. And that is understanding your flow state when you're good at things and when you're not good at things and time blocking the right things at the right time.

And, understanding their employees flow states they can do simple tests. So that their employees will know, when they need to get up and walk around, when, when they should be doing creative work, when they should be doing statistical work. So there, there's just so many things that you can be, do, do to reward adding value and, and making sure that you're rewarding value, not rewarding time spent or energy spent.

Russel Lolacher: Thank you for that. I think it goes for me, I'm going back a bit to that connection piece too, because as leaders, if we can be transparent and open in how we're prioritizing, like you said, creative time, but wait a second, you have an hour and a half in your calendar. You're not doing anything. No, I'm walking around the block thinking about things to, so I can be more strategic instead of being so reactive all the time.

And I think if we are normalizing that for our teams, they can embrace it as well. And I think I, yeah, I, I think it's something that we just need to put into practice and we can't do that if we're like, this is my calendar, you can't see it. You don't know what I'm doing this next hour and a half. Talk about it.

Peggy Sullivan: Yeah, it gets back to energy management and doing the right thing at the right time for the right reason.

Russel Lolacher: So Peggy, we fixed us. We fixed our teams. Organizations still are not looking at it like this, and we are one group in a larger organization. How do organizations shift from this long standing, decades long approach to productivity about being busy?

Peggy Sullivan: Well, I think some organizations are getting it and they're paying more attention to their employees. They're paying more attention to wellness and wellness apps that identify flow states and things like that. But I encourage employers to, I mean, we're in a different state than we've been ever, and I, they need to get educated on this and they need to learn and understand what they need to do.

And quite honestly, I researched time poverty for eight years. I probably spent, I don't know how much on market research and testing and workshops and all that stuff, and. It's, it's actually very easy to, to make that change. The changes aren't all that hard, you just need to know what they are. And if what you're doing isn't working, then why are you doing it? So I encourage a lot of organizations to go through an audit and, and to, really evaluate, uh, what are the values of the organization? How do employees spend their time? Are they, are they meeting their goals? Do they understand the obstacles that employees had?

When was the last time you sat in a room and said, tell me what is keeping you from doing your job? People never asked that question. Oh my God, you, you ask that question, it's like gold. We just need to ask more questions and get our employees more involved. And people like you and me are here to help.

I'm here to help. I, I wanna see things turn around. I don't like seeing people over the top busy and unhappy and unhealthy and, and everything. For me, my busyness, one time I came home from work and I ate cat food for dinner thinking it was stale, pistachio nuts. And, that may sound funny, but when we're on autopilot.

And we don't take a stop. We don't have a big wake up call. Then we just keep on on that hamster wheel. And so, don't wait for that wake up call. Get off the hamster wheel, take a pause, evaluate your current state. Look at your desired state. Look at the gaps in between it and make an action plan.

Russel Lolacher: Does diversity come up a lot in your research? And I ask that because we defined busyness off the top and, and, but people have different definitions of busy. Different cultures have different definitions of busy, uh, how many hours you work in a day and so forth. So how do you approach it from that perspective when the definitions are different?

Peggy Sullivan: They certainly are. They're different generational, so there are different seasons in our life and your age play into it huge. Where you work in the country definitely plays into it huge. Europeans got it right, but so there isn't a one size fits all and I'm a really, really big proponent of, of data-driven decision making and understanding and really looking at, what you're looking at and taking those cultural nuances, those corporate nuances, into, into effect and, and that could be as easy as just interviewing a couple of people, at work, people at the top, but also people in the field and people actually doing the work and, getting those observations together.

And it's, it's pretty crazy. I remember once again, when I worked at United Healthcare, one of the first meetings I had was I met with, thousands of employees and it was town hall meetings, whatever. And I asked them their obstacles. And then we, we actually put together a work plan to eliminate their obstacles.

And it was pretty amazing what happened after we did that. So, I get back to, there's a way, there's always a way.

Russel Lolacher: You've worked with a lot of organizations, done a lot of research. We've illustrated a bit of that. What's been an aha moment for organizations when you've worked for them? Because again, we're talking a pretty big shift from the way we've always rewarded and prioritized. So what's been that aha moment that shifted their way of thinking going, yep, you're right.

We've been doing it wrong. We really need to figure this out.

Peggy Sullivan: Yeah. It's people that are willing to take that micro step. So for me I just say, let's take a first micro step and see what happens. We take a micro step, it works, and they're like, how about more? What more can I do? Let's take another micro step. It works. And so I just say commit to a couple of micro steps and it will change.

It'll change everything. I'm a big, micro person. I, I stress everybody is stressed and I just gave a, a lecture about how to handle stress and, and when I asked the room, I said, what kind of stress do you have? Is it micro stress or macro stress? And most of them said it's day long, full of micro stresses.

And then I asked them, I said, well, do micro stresses make a difference three weeks from now? No. Can you control these micro stresses like the traffic, the this, the that? No. So, you know what, do yourself a favor , think about the stress that you have and sit in it for a minute. Relate to it. But if it's a micro stress, throw it in a paper and throw it over your shoulder because you know what? You can control that. And it's not the end of the world. Uh, life will go on and it's more your head. And the words you're saying to yourself that are making it bigger than it really is.

Russel Lolacher: You bring up stress and I'm, I'm thrilled you did, because a lot of people will consider stress, high stress equals too busy, but that's not necessarily the case. As you said, there are good stresses. What other miscon, like, why are we getting this wrong from a misconception standpoint?

Peggy Sullivan: I, I mean, I think there are good stresses. I did my first TEDx last year. And I did it on a, it was on a Tuesday night and I had the opportunity to do a dry run on a Friday night to a group of people. And they gave me all sorts of advice and I was like, oh God, like I need to recreate this thing.

It's like, it's like, I've got Saturday, Sunday and I gotta practice on Monday. And, and they made suggestions and they were from speakers and really talented people, and I'm like, I cannot lean into it. So, you know what? That Saturday, that Sunday, and that Monday, I was stressed. I made sure I got my exercise in, but I was stressed.

But I worked it out and you wanna know something? My TEDx got millions of views and so there is good stress that ends up with good things, and sometimes you just gotta figure out, what you need to do and kind of what fits your personality. I recently learned that my personality type is an activator.

I'm a speaker, I'm a helper. I love helping people and I love to activate things make the world better. And so I recently learned that the type of breathing that I do to calm myself down is wrong. What I learned is that I need to do 1, 2, 3, 4, expand, hold, really puff my belly and then release it. And so, we tend to think there's a, everything is a one size fits all, but it's not.

And there's a lot of data out there. And the more you understand about yourself, the more you can self-correct and do the things that that make sense.

Russel Lolacher: So I'm gonna go back to that micro step that you mentioned earlier as my sort of to wrap this up. What is that micro-step? If somebody's saying, you know what? I wanna understand my busyness, I want to take that first step. I'm buying Peggy's book. I need to get this all figured out. What is the one thing they can start to do tomorrow to sort of take that nudge in the right direction?

Peggy Sullivan: They can eliminate one low value activity. They can look at their schedule and instead of, having it go from seven to seven. What do you have going on tomorrow that just isn't high value? And what happens if you don't do it? Make you know, you, you apologize, and you, are crystal clear on the why.

But you know, what can you, what can you eliminate? And truly eliminating low value activities is a discipline. But when you do then you have time for what's important, and that's when everything changes. When you, when you have the time to do the work, that is valuable.

Russel Lolacher: That is Peggy Sullivan. She's a global keynote speaker, performance optimization management expert and an author of a pretty fantastic book you should check out, which is called Beyond Busyness, How to Achieve More by Doing Less. Thank you so much for being here, Peggy.

Peggy Sullivan: You are welcome. I had a blast. I'd come back anytime. You're a lot of fun.