Russel Lolacher: And on the show today we have Whitney Faires, and here is why she is awesome. She's an internationally recognized executive coach, keynote speaker, and a leadership expert. She's the founder of Whitney Faires Coaching, Speaking, and Development, which empowers high achieving impact driven leaders to reach new levels of success and unlock hidden potential. And just not for nothing, she set for NCAA Division one records and volleyball at the University of Virginia back in the day, and I think that drive is still pushing her forward. Just saying, hello Whitney.
Whitney Faires: Hello. Thanks for having me today.
Russel Lolacher: Thanks for being here. Super interesting topic 'cause adversity. I was gonna say the word, I was gonna use the F word. I was gonna say failure, but I think that's, we're gonna dance around and dig into that a little bit too. Super interesting for leaders, whether they're allowed to be sometimes or not.
But before we do, I have to ask you the question I ask all of my guests, Whitney, which is, what is your best or worst employee experience?
Whitney Faires: Yeah. So, I could give you my worst, but I actually think my best is so much more fun. So, when I made the transition from sales to commercial operations, I was launching this new function and I had a leader who was completely out of the ordinary compared to leaders I had previously had. His name was Nick Santor.
I can tell 'cause it's my best, right? I can say his name. But one thing that I noticed very early on, even in the interview process, and I thought, oh, he's just really taking time to get to know me because he is trying to, compel me to take this job. But what I noticed consistently was that when I would call him, whether it was my one-on-one call or because I had a quick question, he would say, Hey, well first, before we jump in, like, how are you doing?
And he'd ask me really personal questions in a good way. How's your son doing? I know he is, an infant, did you get any sleep? And he, and he would really invest in just talking to me about me, how I was doing, how my family was doing, what's going on, how, how's, how's my stress level at the end of the quarter?
And I thought this eventually will kind of taper off, but it didn't, he, he made such an effort to invest in who I was as a person. And what that did was it build tremendous trust with me, and it made me realize he actually cared. It wasn't just about what I produced at work, although he had high expectations.
It was about who I was as a whole person. And I think so often, in the, the business world or whatever profession you're in, that's seen is soft. But it actually had such an opposite effect where it was, it was actually, I believe it was genuine, but it was a multiplier for what I was willing to do for him, the organization, because there were so much that was poured into me.
And the other thing that I noticed that made it such a great experience is he was a very empowering leader. And what I mean by that is he encouraged us to take to take risks and to make our own decisions. Similarly, when I called the phone, I'd say, I've got this, got this problem. Here's what I'm thinking.
Here's how I wanna solve it. He said, okay. Yeah. I mean, have you thought through this? Have you thought through? Okay, go do it. And I'm like, when you say that there's a better way that you would do it, so you tell me how you would do it. He's I'm not gonna tell you that. And he's because I want you to do it your way.
If it was gonna fail, if, if it was going to, create, real risk to the organization or the people, I would tell you. I want you to do it your way forever. It drove me crazy. But what I realized over time was he wanted us to to, to start gaining confidence in our decision making, to be able to learn from maybe a, a solution that was less than optimal, but still us there.
And he wanted us to know that he was open-minded, that he didn't know it all, it wasn't about doing it his way. And he is, is a leader that has developed such a brand of connecting with people of driving exceptional results as someone that people would run through walls for. And it was because how he showed up for us, right?
And his ability to give us that space to be us, to learn to grow in the job, in in, I think his superpower is having trust that it's all gonna work out. Like he knows it can't be messed up so bad, he can't fix it. So he is gonna give us that runway to go.
Russel Lolacher: I, I think it's, I feel like it's two pieces of caring, right? The first piece you talked about, and I, I really wrote this down he actually cared. Here's what scares the crap outta me, Whitney. Is that stood out to you like that? It was a, an anomaly based on experience with other quote unquote leaders, bosses, managers, where that's not the norm, which you would think would be, but for that to stand out, for you to be a story that was immediately off the top of your head. That is like we have, we have a problem with leadership. I, I believe we have a huge problem with leadership, but the solution is leadership and that is such a great example of that and on, and I, I have my own experience with managing a team.
I had the same team for 12 years and the retention was probably the highest in the whole organization. But you hit on something that was so important was getting employees to care, failure or win, but having that skin in the game actually makes them wanna work harder. It motivates them because they feel like they're a part of a system instead of a cog in a wheel to somebody else's means to an end, Uh, in that whole relationship. Yeah. How do, what did you take, what did you, what's one thing you took to yourself in your own relationships moving forward from that?
Whitney Faires: Well, I, I think definitely that you need to give people the, the space to be themselves and, and the opportunity to, to fail like it's going to be okay. I'm a very, I'm a, I'm a high achieving perfectionist. I don't even call myself a recovering perfectionist. 'cause let's be honest, you never recover.
You manage it, right? I mean, I wish I was, I wish it didn't exist, but it does. It's who I am. You always, it's like it should be a hundred percent, it should be the best possible result you can give. And you, you can't hold that expectation of people. It's not realistic and not everybody wants it that way.
And so it was real confidence for me that you can give people space to, to do it their way to be themselves. And it's all gonna be okay. If I'm a good enough leader, I will make sure it's all okay. I will be there to support them. You said one thing about how it's, it's kind of sad that like I was, I highlighted that he actually cared.
I think that, and I've made this mistake, I'll be honest, as a young leader, it's the result, the result, the business, the goal. And every time you're on the phone with your people, you're in front of your people. It's it's, it's mostly all business, like 90%. And I'm not saying none of those things matter, but what I am saying is leadership is actually not that hard.
It, it's, it's, we miss the, the ability to just be humans. And when we are humans that connect and, and are real with people and listen to people, that's where leadership becomes much easier because we create a dynamic where it's open and people are willing to share and, and come to us and, and tell us the hard things versus we're just driving into the business all the time and they feel like it's just all about the numbers and then the action items. So that's one of my learnings in, in my experience as a leader.
Russel Lolacher: I, I hear you. One of the, it's funny you say that because I think one of the, one of the pivots for me, oh, eight years ago to go more down the employee path, was that I had talked to all these leaders and business managers at these huge conference, and I brought up employees and the glazed eyes, you would not believe, because I mentioned customer.
Customer equals money. Customers quick. It's easy. We, the employees are a means to an end to that customer that we have to love and covet and make money from. But the minute you talk about employees and retention and humanizing them, it's all about, well, how do I make money for that? Is that a cost center?
Is that a like it was again, I think the world has shifted a lot since then. I mean, COVID actually made us more human and more aware of these things. But to your point, that was the way it was for a very long time was bottom line, bottom line, bottom line. I'm like, but if you treat people like human beings, that bottom line will actually be a lot better by the time you get to it.
Speaking, and you've kind of, you've also given me a beautiful segue into what we're talking about today was like, failure. I'm like, yes, that's what we're talking about. So Whitney, let's kick it off by first again, I, I do this regularly on the show, is defining what, singing from the same songbook here, how would you define adversity or setbacks when it comes to workplace?
Whitney Faires: Yeah, I mean, adversity is any obstacle that that pops up, that derails, slows down impedes the initial vision or plan that you had. Adversity can be really small. It can be just, you're, you're trying to, to, to get ahold of someone, to, to move a project forward and they're not responding to you.
Or it could be really big, Hey, the budget's been cut. You now need to do it with half of the resources. So adversity is really anything that, that creates a speed bump on our pathway to achieving whatever it is that we want to achieve.
Russel Lolacher: Are we getting into a semantics exercise? We start throwing other words in like challenge, obstacle. Is it, are they different or are we kind of talking about the same thing?
Whitney Faires: I, I mean, you could, you could split hairs on it and maybe they, maybe they're different, but I, I think they're mostly the same. I, I'm, I try to simplify things so, any, any challenge, any obstacle, any of that, that, that slows you down, that makes you stop and go, ugh. Now what? Is how I would define adversity?
Russel Lolacher: Is there, before we get into sort of how do we lead through it, I kind of need to understand too, is there a range to this? Because what one person might be an adv, adver, an advi adversity might not be to somebody else or, and I, and I went down this where, and I, I hate when leadership does this, where they do exchange words and say it's the same thing.
For example, somebody's drowning at work. And they're like, that's just a setback. I'm like, no, they're drowning. That is not a, oh, it's a great opportunity to learn how to swim now. That's not what this is. But I've seen leaders throw words in to sort of like minimize it. So how do you approach when people ask those questions?
Whitney Faires: I, I, I think anytime someone is struggling. When you gave the example of of drowning, you immediately have to hop in and help, right? Because I mean, they're people and they're our most valuable resource. In my opinion. People are our most valuable resource. You can have the greatest product, service, technology, you name it.
It's not going anywhere without your people. So to, to me, if somebody is struggling, then you immediately should step in and at, at a minimum check in and do some discovery on it. So I, I dunno if I answered your question. You, you mentioned though also, is there a range? Absolutely. There's a range. And here's what's tough for leaders.
That range is gonna be dependent on each person. So it doesn't matter what I think about, oh, this is just a small little setback. What matters is if I am leading my people or I'm working with a business partner, whoever it is. Is, how does it feel to them? Because, and, if we are guiding based on how we perceive it, that's a miss.
Right? It's how it feels to them, how big it is to them. What they do from, from there. So it, it reminds us that we have to constantly be seeking to really understand, and we have to truly listen without judgment about their perception of the adversity or the setback.
Russel Lolacher: Yeah, I, I love that you talked about it, where it's it's a personal thing, so drowning. We almost have to address that at a mental health, human level first before we can go, go, okay, well obviously now we've addressed this. Where can we now look at, at as a, as a setback or adversity or a challenge?
We can't even get to there if mental health-wise, they're drowning. They can't handle it. They are in a, and these could be from external pressures too. This might have nothing to do what's happening in the workplace. It could be things that are happening externally. But if we're not leading and understanding that situation, we're not helping.
Whitney Faires: Yeah, I, one of the principles I live by as a, as a leader, but also as a person, but I really, it came to me first in the business world is the principle is I assume best intent. And, and the reason why is I can look at someone who's quote unquote drowning and think, I, I don't know how that would be. I mean, they've got the resources.
I feel like they don't have a lot on their plate, like they're doing what the job description said, but it, I, I assume I hired if I, if I hired the right person, then there's a reason. There's something I don't know. So I'm gonna assume that they're doing their best and they're really struggling. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna try to find out why and how I help.
Because at the end of the day, it's not about being right or wrong, it's about the person and what I don't know and how I get them on a path where they're in a good spot. So assuming best intent is just so helpful because, even when it's something small, like this person missed a, a deadline and it's not really significant, but it just irritates me as a leader.
I asked myself, okay, I'm sure they wanted to hit the deadline, so what is it that got in their way versus me being frustrated and, and emotional about it and shooting off an email that says, Hey, why is this not done? Assuming best intent helps me decompress that emotion and actually come from a place of curiosity.
Russel Lolacher: And living in a world of assumption is horrible as a leader because again, curiosity is absolutely a cure. So what are other misconceptions that leaders may be having when it comes to adversity in the workplace or setbacks?
Whitney Faires: Yeah, I, I think, one of the misconceptions is people will figure it out. Like they, they, they came to me, they told me, even when they say, I got this, I, I know the solution. I'm gonna figure it out. I just wanna give you a heads up. I, I don't think you ever as assume that they do. I think that's an opportunity to say great. Let me hear what you're thinking. And it's always an opportunity for coaching. If they're a really proficient, high achieving employee, maybe they just say, they, they say, tell 'em, tell you their solution, and you're like, sounds great. I think you have a great plan. Or maybe watch out for this. So I think it's not just letting them run with it because you never know, especially when they, they fear that this could impact their brand or, their performance at work. Are they just trying to get your way so they can go figure it out? And you don't want 'em to do that. You want 'em to be able to, to talk to you about it. I think that's one of the big ones. I think the other thing is making sure that they've really thought comprehensively about the impact. So I, I always think that there's different levels of thinking as it relates to problem. There's like the micro level, like how does this affect me and my team? Or the immediate project we're working on. Then there's macro level, the organization, the broader people, our customers, and especially our younger professionals, they aren't gonna have macro level thinking.
So maybe they're not actually considering the true impact of the adversity. And it's our job to use that opportunity to teach them how to process that through, through maybe stepping up and leading through that solution.
