Defining Leadership Design for the Future of Work

Part 1 of our 4-part conversation on leadership design.

In this episode of Relationships at Work, host Russel Lolacher explores what “leadership design” really means. Guest Georgi Enthoven — entrepreneur, venture partner, advisor to global family businesses, and USA Today bestselling author of Work That’s Worth It — shares why leadership is more than profit or promotion. She explains how integrating impact into business models is becoming non-negotiable, and why younger generations are demanding leaders rethink what success looks like.

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Transcript

Russel Lolacher: And on the show today, we have Georgi Enthoven, and here is why she is awesome. She's a seasoned entrepreneur, venture partner at MatterScale Ventures, an advisor through Yellowwoods helping global family businesses give back.

There's so much. I'm just like a run on sentence here. There's so much. And she's the author of the USA Today bestseller Work That's Worth It, The Ambitious Professionals Guide for a High Impact High Reward Career. And she's in that pod... podcast space just like myself. She's the podcast host of Work that's Worth It Podcast, right? I, I assume it's associated with the book. Not as dumb as I look. Hi, Georgi.

Georgi Enthoven: Hello. Thank you for the introduction. That was wonderful.

Russel Lolacher: You noted that we are speaking a little later in the day and we're both grasping at that, that late afternoon energy that we're working through. So I, I appreciate the, the, the pumping up as it were.

Georgi Enthoven: Yes, apparently this is all my fault.

Russel Lolacher: With love, with love. Before we get into the questions around leadership design, 'cause I've got a lot of questions. I wanna start with the question, ask all of my guests, which is, what is your best or worst employee experience?

Georgi Enthoven: Yeah, I was thinking about this question and I was reminded of a time early in my career where I shared my salary information with another coworker who was in a different department, but had the same role, and we both got raises. We were both excited, and then we actually shared the numbers. And as it turns out that I had significantly higher salary than she did.

And that caused a whole chain of events, including going to HR, HR coming back and telling us that we should not have talked about salary. And this is something that really was to serve the company, but not the employee. But it was a mark of maybe against our record or knowing that holding that kind of information was something that we would potentially not do.

So it felt threatening to the company. And looking back, I, you know, realized now even getting reprimanded, it was something that probably should have been addressed. And often that does happen in companies where employees do have friction is not necessarily something's wrong with the employee, but maybe the system is designed to not serve the employee. 

Russel Lolacher: And I'm betting that you just shared the information, like it's no big deal. It was just sort of like, oh, you got a number, I got a number.

Did you go into the conversation thinking it was gonna be different or were you just shocked?

Georgi Enthoven: No, I think we thought we're in it together. We're both so happy we got a raise. Like, and I, I, I do really believe that we both had good intentions and actually we're probably pretty naive that it could even be different.

Russel Lolacher: And you did nothing wrong, like Abso like there is such a push nowadays, even for there to be transparency around job postings.

I think it's even been mandated legally in some areas of the world where you actually have to be super clear. Of course, that's super clear in the job posting, not necessarily in the promotions and bonuses as we go through our careers. You say you were kind of, I don't, it wasn't it blackballed or blacklisted, but you did say it might have had an impact on your career in that organization. Is that what you found?

Georgi Enthoven: Yeah. I mean, truthfully, I, it was one of my early jobs and I, we were promoted often. It was, I was young, it was as the tech industry was starting to really bloom, there was a shortage of talent, so we had a lot of wind in our sails, so to speak. So I don't think it really had a long-term impact, but it definitely took us off a, like a list of obedient good workers.

Russel Lolacher: One of those career limiting moves I hear often about in the, in any industry where it's like, well, I know you meant well but now you're screwed. Sorry about that. So let's, let's design better, let's make better places to work, which is really what we're focusing on today around leadership design.

And I was super curious when we first talked about this as what we were gonna dig into. So I'm gonna shut up because I'm super curious how you define leadership design?

Georgi Enthoven: Yeah. Well, I, as you know, am really interested in the area of work where you can have a significant contribution to the world and earn meaningful compensation to match that. So, as when you think of leadership at work, I am particularly interested in organizations that are impact focused, but not only impact focused, impact focus, but with a business model behind that generates revenue and can compensate employees well.

So for me, that is what leadership is about, is by actually taking on one of the world problems or something in your local community and deciding that your business will integrate with that problem deeply and it may actually enhance your business.

Russel Lolacher: So the traditional career planning model for most leaders is, well first, how do I make more money? How do I, you know, there that, especially with the way the, you know, the economies are these days is that little bit extra helps and that does motivate a lot of people as they go through their careers. Also, more responsibility, profile.

How does leadership design and how you are explaining it differ from that?

Georgi Enthoven: Yeah, well. I, you know, nine out of 10 Gen Zers want companies to have some social and environmental responsibility. And Gen Zers are becoming 25% of the workforce faster than we know it. Soon, even more, And businesses are going to have to change, not just what Gen Z wants, but also we can look at our environment and we have all the knowledge now that the way we are operating in business no longer can, we can't operate at that same pace.

So we are going to have to make some changes. So business as usual, the way we've usually done it that just looked at financials and financial success or what's good for me is no longer going to be an option in the future. And what I have found as so many inspiring businesses are being formed and developed that are actually have a cause or a contribution built into the center of the business.

And so long term that is not only gonna be what we have to do, but it's what the younger generation is inspired to do and asking and in many ways. I think of the millennials having changed how we think about mental health in the workforce. And before that could say, you know, how would that ever change you know, mental health days or aren't gonna be a thing.

And millennials really demanded that, that become a norm. And companies are making job offers and saying, and you get X amount of mental health days. This is going to be the same case with this younger generation. They are going to demand that we care better for our planet and people. And so I'm excited to see what comes of it, but it's not really a matter of, do you want to do this? It's going to be a requirement, I believe.

Russel Lolacher: So I'm curious about that because I have a huge challenge with a lot of, well, people in the leadership space don't seem to even know what leadership is, or they have varying definitions of what leadership is, and you're defining leadership as a vision, a purpose that improves the environment, the ecosystem, the world in which we live. But I've heard leadership be more aligned to management or be more aligned to people and their growth, but you're talking about something completely different. How does those, how do those mesh?

Georgi Enthoven: Yeah, well one thing that comes to mind is when I was writing my book, I interviewed Vincent Stanley, who's one of the very first employees at Patagonia. And they're obviously a company that has significant impact and also pays their employees well. So it's an income impact scenario.

And what he said to me is, the reality is most jobs have, you know, a huge amount of work that's mundane and boring. That's just what work often involves for anyone, even somebody very inspired. And you need motivation to get that work done. And if you have a vision that you are collectively grouping behind and rooting for, and it's interested to you, you are connected to it personally.

You want to see the results personally. You're able to get work done that is not necessarily work that you find enjoyable. So it gives people a focus and let's say a north star outside what the day-to-day task is. And like, I'll give you an example for me writing my book editing I found incredibly tedious, but the message to me is so important that I really focused on the editing piece with my whole heart because I really wanted to get to the point where I could get the book out and get the message out.

And that is the same on any team. And so without that, especially the younger generation. I hear pushback of the generation is lazy. They don't want to take partake in anything. They feel uninspired, they don't like the work. Maybe they just need a vision that's more compelling.

I see incredible Gen Z workers when they do have that, that are really motivated and really resourceful and know how to get things done.

And so part of it is just having something more inspiring that you're working for.

Russel Lolacher: It's funny you say that. I've, I've heard those, I heard it. I mean, I'm old enough to remember them saying, people saying the exact same thing about millennials, that they're saying about Gen Z now. And I'm like, but the most entitled people I've ever seen have been Boomers, not Gen Z, not Millennials.

And we're all different. The, the diversity side of this is astronomically impactful when we're talking about leadership. So what does a designed leader look like, act like? How do they show up? Like what are we tangibly looking at

Georgi Enthoven: Yeah, I mean, one of the things that I find so remarkable by the people who are focused on a contribution or building a contribution into the workforce is they say things like, I don't mind Monday. I don't mind coming back from vacation. I love what I do. I would do this for free. And I hear those words pretty consistently.

And then I think in the real world, like how often do I hear that? No, I hear people say, oh, I can't believe it's Sunday night. I don't want Monday to come. Or like, the work week feels so long or I can't wait for vacation. And we're living in a world where most people show, have to show up at work with a different persona than they go home.

And when you can find work that's worth. The, what I see unanimously is people feel aligned with who they are at home and who they feel at work. There's something they're, they're excited about working on something that is not separate between work and home.

And so that really helps with different things. It helps with motivation, it helps with burnout, it helps with alignment, it helps with connection and collaboration and people forming relationships. And so it has a lot of positive impact on a community or within a team of office mates or even the individual feeling more fulfilled.

Russel Lolacher: So as an individual, and I'm working through this to understand and design my own leadership and my and I work within an organization that has values that may not necessarily align with what my vision is moving forward.

Or it's not as altruistic, it's not as charitable as I need it to be. Are we jumping ship? Or we are we making adjustments? What do we do in that situation? 

Georgi Enthoven: Yeah, I especially in the world we are in today, I think the workforce is very unstable. I think many young people, I just read 4 million Gen Zs are, are, Gen Zs are out of work right now. It's a huge number and so I don't believe that it's a particularly good time to quit a job and not have something lined up.

But what I will say is that you can bring impact into any job wherever you are. And I'll give you another example. Actually, this is also an example from Patagonia, but there was a woman who was maybe a mid-level employee. That was working on their catalog business. And you and I are old enough to know that that's how companies used to sell, like in a paper catalog before they had everything on the web.

And so this woman was really interested in seeing if she could get the catalog printed on recycled paper. And they're a company that really values their visuals, their photography. And so they said, as long as you can get the same quality. It's a go. And so she found somebody to, who was able to produce the quality at the cost they needed and everything else.

And it not only was she able to convince Patagonia to go ahead with it, but it changed the whole industry. All sorts of other companies started to produce catalogs that also are on recycled paper. So one thing to note is you don't have to go to a company that is specifically aligned with something that you care about.

You can bring that with you and use that as something to align and to motivate your team. And I often work when I work with people, like we think of a contribution sometimes for the really the first time. 'cause very seldom are we asked, what do you care about? We're often asked, you know, what do you want to do? What skills do you have? But not who you know, what's important to you? What do you really want to contribute to in your lifetime? And finding a purpose. Finding a passion, it sounds really overwhelming and maybe for the select few, but building a personal mission is not, and having that aligned with a company mission is ideal, but it can start with one word.

And that's like where I like to start is if it's just one thing that you want to align with, what is it? And it could be women, it could be the environment, it could be refugees, whatever it is. But what is the one word that you could bring in? And that could be at the individual level or at a company level.