Relationship-Building Hacks: Confidence, Connection, and Values w/ Susan Ireland

In this episode of Relationships at Work, Russel Lolacher dives into relationship-building hacks with Susan Ireland, executive leadership coach and co-founder of Seasons Leadership. Susan reveals her proven strategies for strengthening workplace connections, including her "inside-out" and "outside-in" approaches to building trust and confidence.

From small tweaks that boost how you show up to practical tools like the Relationship Matrix, Susan shares actionable advice for leaders and professionals looking to improve their relationships. Tune in to learn how aligning your values, nurturing trust, and staying curious can transform your workplace and leadership style.

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Transcript

Russel Lolacher: And on the show today, we have Susan Ireland. And here is why she is awesome. She's an executive leadership coach and the co founder principal at Seasons Leadership, a leadership development consultancy. She's also the founder and principal of her own coaching and consulting business, helping individuals and organizations in their personal and professional excellence.

Her background also includes 30 years at Boeing, playing a key role in their original leadership team. Hello, Susan.

Susan Ireland: I key role in, airplane development leadership team. The Boeing company versus a program.

Russel Lolacher: There was leadership involved,

Susan Ireland: Yeah, just a little bit of a difference.

Russel Lolacher: But it's good to get clarification. I appreciate that immensely. Thank you for that.

Susan Ireland: Yes.

Russel Lolacher: But I, so thank you for throwing me off immensely with my bio, my very important bio there, Susan, before we get into anything, we're going to get into, which amazingly, it's going to be about relationships.

Susan Ireland: Yes.

Russel Lolacher: It is the show. I have a question to ask, which I ask all of my guests, which is what is your, Susan, best or worst employee experience?

Susan Ireland: Well, I knew you were going to ask this. So, and I really, this, this particular story I'm going to tell you is really pivotal, pivotal for me. And it was before I was a manager and I was in, in a organization called the program management office. And so, our role really was overall planning and scheduling and managing and that kind of thing. Projects, big projects. And I was assigned to a project. It was a, it was a big project and it was just me. And it was I was supporting the senior executives in this project and they were trying something different and they said, we want to, we want to manage this project like we would an airplane program.

And so we want you to do this, Susan, for us. And so they were all, and I just can't emphasize all senior executives. I was not even a manager yet. They were also all men.

Russel Lolacher: Okay.

Susan Ireland: So, needless to say, even though I had done this role for, for other, you know, projects and programs, with all different levels of leadership, and even senior leadership, but not this, like, them and me. You know, then this is what we're, they were doing this kind of experiment. And so I was nervous because I had these guys know way more about this than I do, and, you know, here I am. Who am I to be leading them, you know, and this, you know, whatever.

So I, I was not feeling confident and, but so the, the first time we sat down in a room and you know, it was in a, like a meeting room where everybody's sitting around the table and I'm standing at the front and I'm just like, 'oh crap', you know and everybody was super nice. But one of the people, the leaders there said, 'Susan. You are our leader in this, lead us.' And the way he said it was very authentic and supportive. And everybody else said, yes, in we're here, tell us what to do. And I don't know what happened, but something in my mind like clicked like, they need me to do this job They need me to do it well because they don't have the time and space to do this. I know how to do this.

I wasn't, I was not confident that I didn't know how to do the job. I know how to do it and they want me to do it. You know, they're not up here judging me and poking at me for things that maybe I don't know. And, you know, they, they are, they're here to make this all work. We all have a goal to achieve and together we'll achieve it.

And it was like my anticipation and my anxiety just kind of let go and I said, okay, let's do this. And then it didn't matter what levels we were and all of that. We just had to work to do and we all did it. So, and I did my job to the best of my ability. And, and it really was one of the best jobs I ever had because of the leadership examples I had. And then the the opportunity to step up my game.

Russel Lolacher: Well, that was a story that was pretty quick to mind. I mean, I knew you knew I was gonna ask the question, but it was one that came pretty quick to your thoughts. What from that experience have you carried with you? I mean, obviously, it's it's not a recent memory. So obviously, it's something that had an impact on you. So how did it influence your leadership after that?

Susan Ireland: Well, it's to convey to everybody who worked for me or who I worked with that we are all important. There's no jobs that are like extra. Nobody has money for that or time. We hire people for positions because we need that work done. And so, and every job is really important. It doesn't matter what level it is. It needs to be done. And so if it's, if people realize that, so if leaders realize that, like, whoever these people are, you know, they're important. They're important for the business. They, you know, they, they're people. So we need to respect them. But we need to also allow them to do their jobs and give them the tools they need, the support they need, that, you know, the development opportunities.

Sometimes, sometimes we need to be pushed a little, you know, I was being pushed in that position. I mean, even to get that position was an opportunity. And so it's, it's to realize that I think as a leader to people who are working for you, but then also whatever job you have, you know, it could be at any level to realize you're there to do a job.

Russel Lolacher: I want to give your former boss a bonus point as well, because they demonstrated situational awareness. So even though you were there to do the job, even though everybody knew their roles, they knew and had the forethought to think, maybe they need permission. Right? Just, just, you've got your own thoughts. You're new. You're shiny. Even though you know it's your job, you still needed that permission to understand, no, you're the leader here. You needed to hear the words. And a great leader figures that out, while other ones just assume.

Susan Ireland: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. That is fantastic, Russel. I love that.

Russel Lolacher: Thank you.

Susan Ireland: No, that is exactly right.

Russel Lolacher: Stuff rubs off me after 200 episodes.

Susan Ireland: Yeah. No, it's, it's fantastic.

Russel Lolacher: And this is this is again about relationships, like your relationship, their relationship with you, how they want that relationship to go. And I know that's what we're going to talk about today. Especially when we were pre chatting, you had brought up an approach and I want to get to that in a minute because I mean, the name of the show is Relationships at Work. So we've got a bit to mine here. I want to first get into a definitions because definitions are so huge because we talk about a lot of things and don't define them drives me nuts. So Susan, what is a relationship to you in the workplace. What is that?

Susan Ireland: Ooh, that's a tough one to articulate in a few. Our relationship is, it's, it's an acknowledgement and recognition of another person. It's like seeing another person and having the other person see you and acknowledge and recognize that for whatever reason, we're here together.

Russel Lolacher: I love that. And, and the reason I have to ask that is, I mean, we feel like we know what a relationship is. Like we've, it's a feeling as, but, but put pen to paper and define what it is, I ask it because we don't know if we're successful in attaining it, if we don't know what we're actually trying to achieve.

Susan Ireland: Yeah.

Russel Lolacher: So I love that definition of it, especially because you were like workshopping it a bit there, which I love because you were... I loved every word you use. So why are they important in the workplace?

Susan Ireland: Well, I, every job that I have done has always included other people. I, I have, I, you know, I can't say that, you know, I've done anything by myself. It's always in relationship with other people at some way. So the, the better the relationship, I mean, we don't have to be best friends by any means, but the better the relationship and the more open and curious, the better the work is. So, because it's almost like I feel like for me, the relationships I have actually expand my view and perspective, because I have only Susan's view and perspective. It's my world and you know, it's pretty small compared to what it could be when I tap into all the people around me, then it's, it gets bigger and bigger and just more rich, deeper. I get more insights. We can just do better work with that.

Russel Lolacher: And the opportunities that can come from that and the like, there's just, I feel like if we're not working to build relationships, we're not, we're, the work is just living in a silo in a corner in the bottom office. And then, and then you come out and you blink your eyes out and you're like, you come into, and some people like to work that way.

I, I shouldn't, there are a few people I know that are so either introverted or where it's I'm just here to do a job. I just want to do my job. I just want to leave. But even then I talked to him like, so who'd you spend lunch with? Oh, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Susan Ireland: Right.

Russel Lolacher: It's still relationships.

Susan Ireland: Exactly. And the, the reason why we do the work is because of relationships. We're delivering something, you know, we're providing a service. Something, something is there. Yeah. And plus, here's the other thing, and this, I know for me, I tend toward the ex extrovert side of the spectrum. It's a lot more fun. I mean, life is too short.

And we spend a lot of time at work. And you know, we're around all these amazing people and it's, it's just better when I have relationships with people around me.

Russel Lolacher: And it's a funny thing what the pandemic did as well. I mean, I was the first one in the pandemic thinking that working from home was going to be, I'm going to use old man language, the bees knees. Like I thought it was just going to be like the best thing ever. And then I miss those interactions. I miss... and I hate looking at the same four walls that come with work that come with, so they've done studies where millennials and Gen Z, I'm Canadian, where they want to go into the office. They want those mentorship opportunities. They want those relationships. And then those same studies find the people that are Gen X want to go home because they have kids, they have other responsibilities where they have to, that they have to be responsible for. Other relationships. So it's a funny thing that we're trying to meet in the middle of what a relationship is supposed to look like.

Well, what relationships are we really prioritizing in all of this?

Susan Ireland: Right. Right. Right. It's, it is a complicated, it's, it's, the world has gotten much more complicated. And, and I think sometimes it's, it's opening up these questions, which actually I think is really bringing us forward. So I don't remember having these kind of conversations back when I started working, you know, I mean, we didn't think about this stuff.

We just, you know, I didn't follow it along. This was the path, you know, and get in line. And so I'm glad we're having these, these types of conversations and people are really thinking about it.

Russel Lolacher: Now, when we chatted, and this is the reason I loved having you on, was that you're, you're prioritizing relationships when it comes to your own consulting, when it comes to attaching it to leadership. And you were describing, I'm like, don't know, stop, stop talking. I want to push a record button, around the outside inside approach to relationship building at work.

What are you talking about, Susan?

Susan Ireland: Well, you know, as a coach, you might have heard this, you know, it's, it's like an inside job, right? We've got to work on ourselves. Our self awareness, understanding our values you know, to be our authentic selves, to really live to our full potential. So that... coaches spend a lot of time on that. And I, I think it's absolutely necessary. But sometimes I'm just looking for like, can I have a hack? And so that's the outside in kind of thing. So if I can just do something and it makes a difference, it kind of, I don't know, it keeps the momentum going and gets me encouraged and inspired to keep going and keep working on that inside stuff too. Right? So like a hack, here's a, a simple hack is that, so we're probably much more open to relationships when we feel good. If we're not feeling good about ourselves, you know, we kinda maybe hide, like, maybe I don't wanna see somebody, you know, because I'm not really up for it. So as, as maybe as superficial as this sounds, It's pay attention to your appearance and what you're wearing. It doesn't have to be expensive or the latest fashion or anything like that, but if what you're wearing isn't making you feel good, change, you know. Wear something else, you know, wear a brighter color or I know here's the thing that I used to always do.

This is an outside in. So I was working in corporate America and I thought it was super important to look professional. So I had probably five or six black suits.

Russel Lolacher: Right. That makes sense.

Susan Ireland: Totally. I don't really look good in black suits. I mean, I was wearing a uniform.

Russel Lolacher: Mhm.

Susan Ireland: So, and, and I didn't even see it. And so somebody, you know, told me, you know, like, put, mix it up with some color. It's okay to look like, Susan, and not like, like everybody else that you think, you should be. And it just makes a huge difference. And when I feel better, I mean, I don't even have to say anything when I feel better.

Like, yeah, I kind of like this. I look like I look good. People notice, and they say like, Hey, what's different? They may not even notice she doesn't have a black suit on anymore, but you know, there's something about it. It's how I carry myself. I have more confidence. I'm a self assured and maybe I, you know, speak up in a meeting when I might not have before.

Russel Lolacher: You're almost wearing the confidence.

Susan Ireland: Yeah, it's exactly right. And it's, it sounds silly. Like people go really, really, doesn't it depend on like what I contribute and how much I know. And I say, yes, that's true. It absolutely is. You really can't fake it, but you can't, it's how you feel.

Russel Lolacher: So you've coached. So I stick with the outside in before we get into the inside out for a bit. So from the outside in approach, what's been an Aha moment for you talking to people and coaching leaders that have to look at this possibly as a way of connecting with other people?

Susan Ireland: What's an aha moment?

Russel Lolacher: Well, if you're coaching people and they may not have seen, like I can think of some people that I'm like, Yeah, it's amazing if they didn't wear jeans. Like or they didn't wear clothes that were probably a little more on the too comfy side.

Susan Ireland: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Russel Lolacher: Right? So you're gonna have to have those conversations. I'm assuming you're having those

Susan Ireland: Yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah. So really it, people are ready at different times, right? And so, and being somebody's coach, I mean, it's, it's, you ask the questions like, you know, much are you willing to do? Some people aren't willing and so you just don't go there. You say, okay, that's fine. It's it really they have their choice. Other times I'll say like just try an experiment, try try try a new shirt. Try jeans. See what happens. Maybe try colorful colorful scarf. Maybe a new purse. Just a little bit, you know, you don't have to go, you don't have to revamp your whole self, you know Just a little bit just try it and see if you like it, you know See what see what happens and these kind of things can kind of get a momentum The other thing is is there's terrific people out there image consultants that you know This is their job.

This is not my job. I don't do that. I need them. But they do a terrific job and I, I know one in particular, Michael Bruce Consulting, image consulting. He does a great job and he works with men and women all over the country and the transformation is wonderful. And it's, the thing about it is, it is about how you feel and how you show up and, it is trans... it's transformative. It really is. And, and that's one of the things where it's, it's like builds momentum. So you do something small, you feel good, you change something, you show up differently, you take a class, whatever it is, you know, it's like you start like going on this positive reinforcing loop that's better and better and better and better.

Russel Lolacher: What's the problem that people are coming to you that you feel like an outside in approach? Are they saying I'm lonely? Because that seems to be one of the biggest challenges in in the workplace, especially in leadership, was that they feel so disconnected.

Susan Ireland: Yes, that is true. That that is totally true. I think being a leader today, and maybe always, is very lonely because you don't have anybody really that you feel like you can really confide in. So, one of the biggest things I say is, who are your mentors? Who are your confidants? And most of the time people will say, well, I don't have time for that. I'm so busy. I said, that's, you need to talk to people who are experiencing similar challenges as you, as you are. And, and really feel free to have a good conversation with them. So that's, that is a big, that's an outside in, you know, to have that, that, that is, that is game changing.

Russel Lolacher: And that's, I'm glad you said I'm like, that's an outside in having a network around you that is supporting you, challenging you in a constructive way. We all need that in the workplace, and a lot of us don't have those teams where we feel like we're, we're at the head as leaders, because I mean, this podcast is for leadership, we're the leaders. So we feel like an other.

Susan Ireland: Right. Exactly.

Russel Lolacher: Right?

Susan Ireland: And it's true. You can't talk to your teams, or people who work for you, about challenges that you're having with them. You know? Like, like, I don't know how to delegate, or I don't know how to give feedback, or, I don't know, you know, and to have somebody outside that you can have these candid conversations with to kind of think through something, you can do it with a coach too, but I think it's just really powerful to have somebody who's in the same role as you doesn't have to even be in your same company.

It could be you know, in an adjacent company, you know, somebody that, you know, maybe that you went to school with or something, you know. But those kinds of relationships, you know, we're talking about relationships, those need to be nurtured. No, that's that to be, to have that kind of trust in somebody, to have those kinds of conversations, it takes a little time.

Russel Lolacher: So what kind of advice do you give to someone? I love the idea of looking outside the organization because they don't have the same baggage. They don't know the same gossip. They don't have the same preconceived notions of the people that you might be bringing up and complaining about. So And They don't have, they don't have an agenda. Also true.

Susan Ireland: So, you know,

Russel Lolacher: So there are, and I sort of mentioned earlier, there are those introverts, there are those neurodivergent people that don't feel maybe is connected to other people that they're working with. What advice, how would you cope someone like that, that is still feeling that disconnection, wants those mentors?

Are they just sending random emails out on LinkedIn? What are, what would you recommend to those people who aren't as extroverted as you and I?

Susan Ireland: Yeah. It is a hard one because it is, it is a... It's scary. So, so it depends on the position and that kind of thing. So if somebody is a CEO, I'd say like, go find a group of CEOs or go find a CEO. I mean, it, you know, they're in that position, even if they are introverted. They've at some level figured this out, how to go and reach out so they can do it.

I think somebody who's maybe newer in an organization or newer in their career, it is really scary. And so what I would, my advice to those people are okay, look around you and you've seen people if they, if you've seen them in a meeting or presenting, and there's something about them that you really admire.

Maybe they gave a great presentation and the way they speak to a group is something that you really would like to learn how to do more of. So that, that way, that's an opening that you could, you could send them an email and say, Hey, I'm Susan. I was at this meeting. I saw you do this. And I really admired that. And I'm, I'm working on that myself. I'd love to come and talk to you about your experiences and how you learn to do this. I could take you to a coffee, you know, or, you know, or meet you on zoom or whatever, most people I know will make time to meet with a person that says that, you know, because it's genuine and most people want to help if, if they at all can.

Russel Lolacher: And people love talking about themselves. So it's really easy.

Susan Ireland: Yeah, it is. I mean, it, it's. It's, it's pretty amazing. You know, most, most people, there are some people that are just too busy or something that just can't and, and I know it takes a lot of courage to be able to make that leap and ask somebody. But, and if they turn you down for whatever reason, it's just, I just say, assume they're just too busy. And then just try somebody else.

Russel Lolacher: And honestly, I would say that if the leader is too busy, they may not be as great of a leader. To somebody that you may want to mentor for them. Cause they're obviously not very good at boundaries or time management.

Susan Ireland: Yeah. Well, you just don't know, you know, but everybody, everybody's struggling with something. So I think our tendency is to think, Oh, it's me. They don't like me or whatever. And really it's not the case. I can't read everybody's mind, but I just know that it's usually not the case.

Russel Lolacher: And it's always, it's a lot of timing. It's a lot of some people, as you mentioned earlier, it's the not ready piece, you can reach out and somebody is not busy, somebody's busy, but right now. So you make sure to follow up in a couple of months for now, because as to your point, it could be a family thing. It could be vacation. It can be, there could be so many other reasons. They're not ready to connect with you, but don't give up on that cause if anything I've noticed with busy people is if you pester them, they appreciate it actually, if you're not obnoxious about it, but if you pester them, they're like, thank you for reminding me.

I've been so busy under 190 emails. Thank you for following up. I want to do this, but...

Susan Ireland: It is. You're exactly right. You're exactly right. The other thing is a way to meet people is maybe look in your organization or in the community for volunteer opportunities. You know, it's really a good way to meet people, in a different context. So you're able to develop those relationships and then build on those then.

Russel Lolacher: I hear a lot about ERGs as well. I don't think a lot of organizations have them because to be honest, I've heard the conversation just from having this podcast and these conversations I hear about ERGs, but then I reach out to people I know and they're like, Oh no, we've never had an Employee Resource Group or they call it something else.

Susan Ireland: Yeah. They may call it something else.

Russel Lolacher: Or they may call it something else. But that's an opportunity. I mean, there is to find like minded people that have shared interests and that sort of thing is not even if it doesn't exist. Maybe it's an opportunity to bring two or three people together and start one because I can tell you a lot of organizations with employees that are craving for this kind of connection.

Susan Ireland: It is true. Or there's other groups like engineering groups or finance groups, you know, that are with people who are getting together and, and talking. So it's, it's again, it's that momentum thing, you know, start small, do an experiment. Did that work? Good? If it didn't work, try something else. If you start small and then it's, it's easy just to keep adjusting until you find something that does work for you.

Russel Lolacher: And maybe put like reminders in your calendar and stuff like that to do those things. I mean, I can't tell you how many reminders I have in a calendar, just to email somebody because you worked with them three months ago and you just need to follow up. Like just little reminders and hacks that you put in your email notification thing. So helpful.

Susan Ireland: Oh, Russ, you are like speaking my language. I use my calendar for everything. And I definitely put that in to so I remember to do it. You know, okay, we at Seasons Leadership, we have a hack. And this one is, you know, such an easy hack, but it works. And I do it, you know, It's called the Relationship Matrix.

I didn't, I didn't even talk to you about this before. This is good. So what it is, it's like an Excel spreadsheet. You can make your own. This is so easy. And what it is, is just you write down, I actually print mine out and write it down, but you know, you can do this online too. You have your, the name of who, like, okay, so I put 'Russel' in there. And then I say, you know, your phone number and your email. And the last time I talked with you and then like, okay, like we said, we're going to meet monthly or quarterly or, you know, once every six months. And so, you know, we make a date, you know, we talk and then we say, okay, let's put it on our calendars. And they say, I'm going to do that. And so you have this. list of, of people that is important for you to keep track of. And here's the thing. You don't put your like mother down there or your brother or your best friend because you're not going to have any trouble. The, you know, you're not going to lose track of, well, maybe ...

Russel Lolacher: Depends on your relationship with them. Yeah. Everybody's family's a little different.

Susan Ireland: That's true, but it's people that you're not going to have trouble, like keeping the relationship going. If these are people that, that you like and admire and you appreciate them and you enjoy talking to them, but it's not, you don't run into them, you know, every day at work and you have to make an effort to keep the relationship going.

So this is, you just reminds you like, Oh, I haven't talked to Julie for like six months. I need to reach out to her and, and schedule because maybe you didn't schedule last time, you know, and it just it, it is great. And to your point about the bugging busy, busy people... Sometimes what I hear is, Oh, I haven't talked to John for so long.

I can't possibly say anything. Cause he's, you know, he's going to think, you know, why is he calling me now? And what I always respond to is like, no. Most people are going to be so happy that you reached out because they haven't either. I mean, life is busy and you know that feeling of when you go like, I can't believe how long it's been since I talked to you.

And it's that, that's just the way it is for everybody. So this just helps keep you keep it going. And people really do appreciate it. The time not to reach out to somebody is if you haven't talked to them, but you need them for a reference for a job. That is like not a great time. So, people don't appreciate that.

Yeah.

Russel Lolacher: Yeah. Relationships have to be genuine. You actually have to care about the person, not use that person.

Susan Ireland: Exactly. Exactly.

Russel Lolacher: Love that idea. I've, I've had different forms of that idea in, in other ways, but now I completely, I'm going to steal that idea and be a little bit more intentional. What I also love of using that relationship matrix is especially around colleagues that may have moved to other organizations. They may, during a reorg, maybe they are in a completely different wing of a larger organization.

It's ways that you can keep those relationships alive. When you don't see them every, to your point, every day or on a Zoom or Teams call or whatever it might be. So, I love that.

Susan Ireland: Yeah. It's that. It really works great.

Russel Lolacher: So we've spent a lot of time talking about the outside in, Susan.

Susan Ireland: Yeah.

Russel Lolacher: Let's flip a bit into the inside out approach when it comes to relationship hacks.

Susan Ireland: Okay. Well, I guess in a, in a way, this is the best relationship hack or no, this is not a hack. This is not a hack. This is an insight. It's to know your own values and to spend time reflecting on them. And I think there's lots of ways you can do this. You can look on the web and you can do, you know, value exercise and there's a bunch. These are not, this is not rocket science. Easy to do, but to do it really with a lot of meaning, you really have to, you know, really do it. And the reason why I think it's important is because our values don't probably change. Our whole life, right? I mean, our values are values and but they pre prioritize based on the time you are in your life. And so if you don't stay up on that, you could be making decisions based on your outdated priorities. And I, I'll give you a story. Do we have time for a little story?

Russel Lolacher: Absolutely have time for a story,

Susan Ireland: Okay, so doing this value exercise when I was at Boeing, I went to a lot of leadership classes and stuff, and this was kind of a standard thing to do.

And so I got really good at doing it. I could do it really quick. You know, it's like I do my circle my words and. You know, down select and all of that. And, you know, my top values were safety and security, family contribution, I think was probably my top three. So it's important to know that when I was, you know, early on in my career I was a single parent.

I was actually a single parent for like a lot of my career. So it makes sense. Safety and security. I had kids that I had to worry about, you know family and contribution. And, you know, I wanted to work. I mean, that was part of my safety and security was working. So the kids grow up, you know, they're good.

And. I was doing a master's in management and I took a elective course in coaching, which I had never heard of at the time. And it was great and you know, it got me interested in coaching. But, one of the things was to do a values exercise. And so I did my exercise, you know, in five minutes. And the professor said that, why don't you do it again?

And I think it took me like most of the quarter to do this exercise, because then I started really exploring. and thinking about it. She said, what was really exciting to you when you were a child? Like what really got your imagination going? And so I thought, Oh, I wanted to be an astronaut and explore space.

And you know, why did I want to do that? And, and, you know and I remember being on the beach as a little girl looking at the stars and feeling that big, like, Ooh, that's so big. It's, you know, scary and exciting at the same time. And, so I thought, Oh, I just kind of circled around. I thought there's part of me that I have not been paying attention to because I've been very responsible, you know, which of course I had to be. That was where I was in my life. I, you know, safety and security, family and responsibility and all of that was really important things to do because part of my values is, you know, doing that.

But the change is now I've been, it was later in my career, kind of mid late career, and I, I thought, Oh, wait a second.

The kids are okay. I am safe and secure. I am contributing. Maybe there's space to expand to wonder and awe. And I made that like, oh, that's like my top two values. And I knew that I got it right because it's like, I got tingly, you know, I said, oh my gosh. And so from that point on part of my decision making, so whether I was getting a new job or doing it, going on a vacation or doing something, I thought, will this bring me wonder and awe? And it kind of changed my course. And it got to a point when it was toward the end of my career. And I thought, Oh my gosh, I think it might be time to leave Boeing, which was a little sooner, than I thought.

But I thought, I think everything is working. And. I want a chance to do something different because I want to find more wonder and awe in my life. And so I'm, I think that I'm a really a fan of really understanding your values because how this ties into a relationship is because knowing your values and being able to articulate them and talk to other people about them and why they are, because everybody's are different, of course, there's, there's no bad values.

And so you can talk about them and it really opens up the space between two people or group and you can support each other and say, Hey, I noticed this and you know, it's just, it's a, it's just a great way to be,

Russel Lolacher: Thank you for telling that story. Two things that I'm thinking about this. One, I'm going to challenge you on the relationship hack thing. Because as much as I talk about relationships at work, the most important relationship you can have is with yourself. So, it is a relationship hack because it's helping you understand yourself better, and how you show up, and what matters to you. So, I would argue it is actually a relationship hack.

Susan Ireland: There you go.

Russel Lolacher: And the other one is, I really appreciate that you talked about the conversations around values and I don't think we talk about this enough. And I've mentioned it on the show a few times, is that we do these values exercises and exactly like you explained, it's transactional.

You go in, you check off your Brene Brown top five out of a hundred and you're out, right? It's and then you keep it to yourself and you're like, yeah, that sounds right. And then you forget them until the next leader training. For those that can't see. I'm air quoting. So the thing is, is that if we take it seriously, like you did, but then socialize those values. Then people can find that connective tissue. People can understand how to communicate with you better because they understand what's important, what motivates you, what you look for out of the job.

If you keep them to yourself, how the hell am I going to interact with you? How am I going to build a relationship with you?

When I don't really know you and love the idea of really socializing. And I don't think we do that enough. We talk about values a lot. We put them on posters, we put them on websites, but we don't operationalize it. And I think that's the missing piece for a lot of people.

Susan Ireland: Yes. You know, another thing is about values and this is a really good tool. So when we get triggered or pissed off with people or something or a situation, a lot of the time, if not most of the time, it's because either we ourselves or somebody else has trampled on one of our values. And so it's unconscious almost that you just have a reaction. And so then it's helpful to say, I'm having a reaction. The question is what value was trampled on? And if you can articulate that, then you can talk about it.

Russel Lolacher: And how much compassion can you have if when you actually have that information of now I know what I trampled on, now I see you better as my colleague, as my employee, my employer, and I can see because to your point, people react and they don't dig any, they don't dig any deeper than the reaction. We have a whole internet filled with people like that.

But to actually understand what we stepped on...

Susan Ireland: Yes.

Russel Lolacher: If only!

Susan Ireland: Yeah, totally. Totally. And you think like, Oh my goodness. You know, even a lot of times we do this to ourselves. So we're mad really at ourselves because we've, we violated one of our values, you know, for like, for me, for safety and security, if I did something that put my family at risk. You know, because maybe a poor decision, poor financial decision or something, I'm like, ah, you know, and it's really, I trampled on that value.

So before making big decisions, think about what are my values? Does this, is this decision aligned with them? And sometimes, you know, it's not an easy thing. You got to kind of balance, but

Russel Lolacher: From the outside into the inside out. I really appreciate you, Susan, for all these relationship hacks. You provided even one that we had to reframe a little bit there. But let's wrap it up with the last question I always ask, which is what is one simple action people can do right now to improve their relationships at work?

Susan Ireland: Okay. This is a good one.

Russel Lolacher: I thought they were all good, but you go ahead.

Susan Ireland: Is, ask yourself honestly, how am I showing up?

Russel Lolacher: That is Susan Ireland. She's an executive leadership coach and a co founder principal at Seasons Leadership. This flew by, so thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate your time. Yeah, I love the wrap up there as a little sort of, period, done, moving on. Thank you, Susan.

Susan Ireland: You're welcome, thank you, it's been, it's been fun.