Embracing Leadership Humility and Crafting an Ego-Free Culture w/ Chris King

In this episode of Relationships at Work, Russel chats with CEO and author Chris King on embracing humility as a leader and crafting an ego-free culture for your employees.

Chris shares her insights and experience with...

• Success is a team effort.
• Humility drives growth.
• Leveraging individual strengths, not titles.
• Humility is key to team building.
• Connecting individual contributions to the broader mission.
• Persistence overcomes ego-driven environments.
• The power to listen, adapt, and stay accessible.

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Transcript

Russel Lolacher: On the show today we have Chris King and here is why she is awesome. She's the CEO of Henry Schein One, a fortune 250 company and leader in all things dental technology. She's the chairman of the compensation committees to Idaho Power and Skywork Solutions. She was the world's first female CEO of a semiconductor company, and she's an author with her new book Breaking Through The Silicon Ceiling, telling the story of how she achieved that world's first milestone, and she's here. Hello, Chris.

Chris King: Hello, Russel.

Russel Lolacher: I found it a little ironic, and I know it's fine, but reading such a fantastic bio like that. And then knowing we're talking about humility in this episode, it's just, and I know you can achieve amazing things and still have really... understand that ego is not an answer and humility is important, but it just, it felt a little funny to go 'the best ever. And we're going to talk about humility.'

Chris King: Well, that's why the best, you have to be humble. It's a key ingredient.

Russel Lolacher: And before we get into any of that, Chris, I have to ask the question I ask all of my guests, which is what is your best or worst employee experience?

Chris King: Well, I have to go with the best, Russel and it's number one employee because success is a team sport and I love winning. And I would say that my best experience has been becoming number one in the market place. So in my semiconductor career when I worked at IBM, I took a little startup idea, which I talk about in my book with 20 people and we turned it into a two and a half billion dollar business, number one in the world.

And that was so exciting because no one thought we could do it. It was a huge surprise. And it was just by understanding the customer working as a team, setting bold goals and objectives, and then just being candidly persistent, every day.

Russel Lolacher: I'll dig a little deeper into that because that's a hell of a journey to go from a startup to that level of success. And we are a relationships at work podcast. So I guess the first question I have to ask is how did your relationship with your team early days morph into what it is now. What was some of the best takeaways that allowed you to move that? Cause obviously they were there on that journey with you.

Chris King: They sure were. And I can remember some of them saying, Wow, I used to have kind of a boring, slow life. And now all of a sudden, a new customer calls me and everything gets thrown up in the air. So what I try to find is people that are going to be dedicated to the mission. And are going to be with me and be excited about it.

And actually it doesn't really matter to me what their educational background is. Of course they have to have skills, but whether it's an intern or a new employee, whether it's a seasoned executive, if they're in on the mission and are willing to do what it takes and learn as they go, I mean, that's what I look for.

And so it, and it takes all kinds. I mean, I've had people... Once I kind of got my brand going at IBM that I was kind of a disruptor and we were we're really going to work hard to win and be outside the IBM mold, then people would kind of come running. So once we got that started, the right people found me instead of me having to find them.

Russel Lolacher: And have they stayed with you on that journey? Do you have the same people that were with you at the beginning to now?

Chris King: Once in a while I do, there's a few people that do continue to connect, but I'm really proud to say that when I'm thinking about people on that journey, they have become CEOs and they've become senior executives. One I can name right now, Micron, the world's foremost memory maker is in semiconductors.

They make memory chips. Sumit Sadani, he's their second in command EVP. And he was my technical assistant who was reading my mail that came to find me because he wanted some excitement and to learn about business. So those people have advanced to great careers beyond me.

Russel Lolacher: And you keep in touch with them as well.

Chris King: I sure do.

Russel Lolacher: The I highlight that is because we miss the point a lot of times through the transition of leadership, through our journeys exactly like you're demonstrating, but we look at relationships as transactional. I'm only interested in having a relationship with you as long as you work for me or you're doing a thing for me rather than understanding that no matter what change happens, it's a relationship. So it needs to continue if it's a good relationship, regardless of where you end up, if you're working together, if you're not, it's not a, it's not a good relationship otherwise.

Chris King: And I have many examples. In my first CEO job, my head of finance became my CFO at my second CFO job. And now he's the CFO of Skyworks, who is the, which is the company I'm on the board of and a 6 billion dollar revenue company. So and so I still get to talk to him for 30 years. So it's fantastic.

Russel Lolacher: All right, let's get into what we're so very interested to talk about, oddly enough, humility, which I think is fantastic and is such an important, important thing to talk about. It's defined as, and I'm a big fan of definitions because we throw words around all the time without defining them, which drives me nuts.

Humility is defined as a modest or low view of one's own importance or humbleness. Again, this is a very Google definition. I see your expression and, and, and I knew I needed to ask this was, does this ring true as a definition that you would use when it comes to humility?

Chris King: Not quite. I would say it's when it's not all about you. So it's it's never about me. It's about what we can achieve together. And so I think that we as executives have to be open to learning, to learning from others, where, where it might be you. employee in the company or the most junior employee in the company.

We always have to be open to learn and know that we're not always right. So it's about openness and it can't be about the executive when it's about us. I made a big mistake in, in IBM we have employee surveys, right? And the, the employees talk about how they like their jobs and how they like their boss.

And my first time I was like so excited because they ranked me so highly, but everything else about their jobs they didn't like. And I'm like, Oh, gee, I'm just getting them to like me. I'm not, it's not about having great job fulfillment. And so it wasn't... I realized it's too much about me. It's got to be about the team and what we can achieve.

And so I always try to be open. And as I keep saying over and over, it's about the mission.

Russel Lolacher: Why? So why do leaders, because there's a lot of leaders that can get be very successful with huge egos, very focused on their own success and they get rewarded and they get promoted because they're achieving. Because they're fixing somebody's problem. So why do leaders at any level, maybe I shouldn't so focused on executive as well, but why leaders, why do they need to be humble and practice humility?

Chris King: Well I think that those leaders that have a big ego, they are going to run out of steam at some point. I mean, I, I think because if you don't get the team behind you, which is the great thing about leadership, it's, it's how we multiply ourselves and leverage the rest of the team. So I'm kind of thinking of a name that we all know, Elon Musk, right?

He's sleeping on, now we can all have different opinions on Elon Musk, but he's sleeping on the manufacturing floor under his desk. Now that is kind of humble besides the fact that I'm sure he knows he's very smart, but hey, he brings him down himself down to the employee level. And that's about the team. So sometimes we have to sleep under the desk.

Russel Lolacher: See, and then on the other side of perception of Elon Musk is the last thing that man is humble, like the last that he is all about talking about himself and his opinions.

Chris King: Well, I kind of like the sleeping under the desk part.

Russel Lolacher: Yeah, fair, fair. But I couldn't not mention that because anybody says Elon Musk, they're not thinking humble when they necessarily think of him.

Chris King: I think it might not be humble. Yep.

Russel Lolacher: What is the, what is the impact to the organization? Cause it's great point that they can run out of steam eventually, but is there any dangers we need to look out for if we have this egotistical leadership that is focused on solely on productivity? So for instance, I love that you were connected to, you showed obviously you're a great leader and had a great relationship with your team.

But the connection to the work didn't go. And that's a huge problem. But there's also the problem of huge connection to producing and not connecting to their leader. So it needs to be this fun balance. So if there isn't humility, what, why should be a, we be afraid of not having that humility?

Chris King: Well, I think we need to be afraid because it not only applies to the team, but it applies for why we go to work every day, which is usually the customer, whatever that is. And so I'm kind of thinking that when I had bosses that went in and expected the customer to kowtow to them. That was never going to work.

And so I think when we talk to customers, we have to be willing to listen and we have to be have humility in terms of we're not the know it all is. It's not about us. So to me, it's all about the customer, the shareholders and the team. Those are my three constituents that are really important to me. And I think I have to learn and listen to everyone.

Russel Lolacher: Completely get that. But do you have some, some examples perhaps, maybe it's from the board level. Maybe it's from the executive level where there was a situation where that executive could have gone another way. They certainly could have gone a, I know best. Cause that certainly happens regardless of their experience or knowledge.

It's still a, my position says I know best. Have you seen it where an employee or somebody comes to them and they show that humility? I'm just kind of trying to get a picture in my head of what that could actually look like operationally.

Chris King: Yeah, you mean when, when we have an employee that comes to somebody that is thinking about themselves and not about the

Russel Lolacher: Could be a truth to power. Could be, could be just, I have a great innovative idea that goes against what you normally might think. What, what's an example possibly of how that, how you've seen that show up?

Chris King: Sure. So I think that in, in my case, if I see an employee that comes with an idea that's maybe kind of out of the box sometimes I think you have to prod yourself to listen because you might be missing a great opportunity. And so I think that's one example of, of a team member that might come and have a whole different perspective than perhaps you do.

And if you don't listen, you're passing up an opportunity and you might lose that employee.

Russel Lolacher: How do you know you're not being humble? How do you know it was an org?

Chris King: Have to.

Russel Lolacher Awareness is not strong necessarily.

Chris King: You do have to be self aware and you do... Because you do catch yourself once in a while and you say, boy, I was just a jerk to yourself. So I think that, I think that it, it, it does take self awareness and you have to look around you and see the people. And you you, you, made the point of a position of power. Sometimes people use their position to have things their way.

And I think one of the greatest skills of people in a team is to be able to influence other people without having that position of power. Those are people, and I'll give an example, today in my job we, we do dental stuff. So of course we have a chief clinical officer who's a dentist. He's been an orthodontist.

He's, he's also worked at Apple. So he knows tech. He's the perfect guy for a dental software company. And this guy has a million great ideas, but he doesn't get anything done. And so he's an idea guy. So we have to take advantage of that. So what do I do? We give him no employees to work with no team, and we let him be a free agent and use his ideas, whether it's working with customers.

Or working with the team and he makes amazing things happen. And then somebody else has to go execute them. So sometimes in leading a team, you have to understand every individual strength and what they have. And you've got to put round pegs into round holes instead of the other way around. So I think that's an example of how we use someone's great skill, but we know what he's not good at. And so let's make sure that. can just go do what he, what his thing.

Russel Lolacher: So that begs the question of how did they handle that? Because there will be people that will be put in that situation and go, but wait a second. I'm a leader. Why are you treating me like this where you're basically just putting me in a bunker and just using me for my ideas? I'm not leading people. I don't like they have their own perception of what leadership looks like.

Meanwhile, you're leaning into what their strengths and their weaknesses are to better help the company and help that individual. But they might not see it that way. Did they?

Chris King: I have to be really careful because I have to make sure that that person knows their value. And even though he's not leading an assigned team and doesn't have an assigned position, he's leading everyone in the company and creating his vision and making that become reality. So that's pretty powerful. He makes stuff happen. And of course, we put him on all the podcasts because he's a great speaker and But I think you're nailing the point that I think is most important that I want to bring up is that you're connecting what they do to value because you could absolutely you're our ideas person. Go create innovative ideas. But if it doesn't matter, they're just speaking into the void. Or they don't know it matters. Maybe that's more of the important piece is it matters, but they need to know that it matters. They need to, even if they're not showing ego, they still, everybody has one. They need to feel like they're valued. They need to feel like what they do every day to show up matters. So I love that idea because I'll be honest.

Russel Lolacher: I've seen a lot of leaders that should never lead anybody. They should not ever have anybody reporting to them in their life. But it doesn't mean they don't have value. It doesn't mean they're not fantastic for the organization. They're just not properly trained or they don't have the right disposition and could actually do more harm than good if they lead human beings.

Chris King: Well, and it's all in our DNA, right? And so this particular individual, I hooked him up to someone who can execute. And so instead of his ideas going into a void, as you pointed out, I connect him to somebody who gets stuff done and makes his vision a reality. And then it's good for everyone.

Russel Lolacher: What is that? There's that Roy and Walt Disney example where that if Walt didn't have Roy, he would have been a homeless guy. Like just, it would have been, he would have never... unhoused probably the better term... just because he was such an ideas person, but he had no business acumen. And that's what his brother was for. His brother was not an ideas person, but he sure could get things done and melding them together created, well, I think people have heard of Disney. So I get it. I absolutely get it. But you have to be humble to be okay to understand that your role isn't necessarily what you might perceive it when you start your career.

Chris King: That's right. And as a leader, we have to make people, as you point out, have value and bringing up one great point on diversity. This is what I love is diversity of style. And as whether you're a leader or you're a mainline employee we have to have people that have business acumen, people that are creative in their ideas.

We need to have people that are maybe more conservative in how they run their business versus people that are going to be all out there and Be very aggressive. And I think when we build a team with that diversity of skills and thought, it makes a very powerful team.

Russel Lolacher: And I think that's a great test of humility as well as a leader understand that you don't have all the answers, your disposition, your leadership styles are not great in every situation. And there are others that are going to be better at it than you. And you need to lift them regardless of where they fit in the organization.

They don't need to be at your executive level. They can be frontline staff and be way more versatile in these areas.

Chris King: That's right. And one of the things that I think I also do that probably drives my husband crazy is I'm always going to be the first one in the building in the last one to leave. And he's well, how come you're working so much harder than everyone else? Well, I'm the leader and I need to be there for my people, whether it's 10 o'clock at night, all night or you name it. So I think we have to be there and accessible and the team has to understand we're a part of the team and we're going to work as hard as they are.

Russel Lolacher: Well, then that worries me about things like burnout, right? If that, if you're a leader and you're the first one in and the last one out, guess who's getting the least amount of sleep? That would you.

Chris King: That's true. That's true. But you know, we have to have spurts when we do that, when there's stuff that's important.

Russel Lolacher: Yeah and I think that's, that's a good clarity because I, I totally get it that you have to be there for every team member because every team member is different in how they like to be led, how they like accessibility to their leader, how they want to connect. And you as the leader have to get all of that and cater to the personalization of that relationship, but you have to have a relationship with yourself as well.

And there is the other side of ego and lack of ego and humility is you could be stepped all over. You could be taken advantage of. It is the other side of it where you kind of have to look after yourself as much as your team.

Chris King: That is so true. And I think sometimes you do wonder about getting stepped on, but I believe if you do the right thing, you're not going to be stepped on. And I'll just give you this one little lesson that I have in my book, which is don't sweat the small stuff, so as a young engineer, I, I'm doing my circuit design, right?

It's when in the age when we have copiers. I go to the copier machine to make a copy of my circuit design, and I'm doing that. And some male engineer comes in with this whole huge stack of papers, shoves them in my arms and says, here, make these copies and bring them to my office. And it's Oh, should I say, I'm not a secretary, I'm an engineer and don't give me those copies, but I don't say that.

Instead, I say, okay, I'm making the copies. He leaves. I bring him to his office. And then about three weeks later, he finds sees me in a meeting and sees that I'm not a secretary. I'm an engineer. Now, how does... I made my point? And I didn't get walked over, but I didn't have an ego at that moment. And I made the copies.

Russel Lolacher: I think you absolutely have to be that person. And, and I mean that for customers, but also for employees that you are not, there's no, well, I'm too good for. Like that... that can't be a thing. I remember working in restaurants as well, and that was more of the customer thing where. I don't care if you were the general manager or a bus boy or girl is if somebody asked for something, you did it.

You went and did it because you were part of the overall experience. And that person doesn't care what your paycheck is. They just want what they want when they want it. And that should be no different with your employees of going, no, I'll stick up for you. I'll be that person, whether it's in your own staff or somebody else's business area. It's about relationships and the biggest killer of relationships is I'm too good to help you. I can't imagine how much that hurts.

Chris King: That is a very good point, Russel. I'm with you there.

Russel Lolacher: Adam Grant, who is a fantastic author, organizational psychologist, he says the best leaders exhibit confident humility. So it is not just humility because he totally believes that, but also that you also have to be confident in your abilities, but it can't come off ego driven. Do you, would you agree with that?

Chris King: Oh, I absolutely a thousand percent. I would say so because when I'm making a presentation to my bosses or a customer or a shareholder, we're going to invest in my company. I better be confident about what we, the team is going to be able to do. And so I think that certainly you have to have that confidence.

Otherwise people aren't going to get on board and it's important to your team. I mean, one of the things I believe is I don't, I have great relationships with my team, but on the other hand, I'm always going to stay a little above in my thinking because they have to have confidence in me. I can't complain to them.

Oh, I'm worried about this. I'm worried this might be happening or okay, we got to cut expenses. How terrible is that? I have to make sure that employees also and a team has confidence in me as the leader.

Russel Lolacher: But that I think should be wrapped up, and I don't think we think about this enough, in the strategic thinking side of the, the role in executive. Cause when we think, when you get to those levels, strategic thinking is all about making more money, productivity, improving process, innovation, innovation. When strategic thinking is also, how can I best build these relationships?

How can I best cater to helping remove the challenges they need to get their job? How can I best understand my staff? I think it's all strategic thinking. I just think it can't be one over the other. And I love that you're taking that time and going, I'm not, I don't know if it's step ahead is a nice way of putting it, but also you're giving yourself the space to take that time and think about what could be better for the team.

And I don't think we think about that enough. There is some capacity we need to build into our work to also do that.

Chris King: Well, I think that's something that's always on my mind. I think about the executives that work for me today, and I'm always thinking, how can I make them better? How can they do their jobs better? How can I develop them more? And how do I make sure I have the right executives on the team? That's always my number one thought.

And I think when I, come into a new company. This is my fourth CEO role. When I come into a new company, the first thing I get to know is I get to know the team and understand for myself what changes do I need to make there? And then I might understand the customer and our products. But number one is always understanding the people that are going to be on my team, particularly the direct reports.

Russel Lolacher: So things aren't static though, Chris, there will be people that will come into an organization and they might be humble. They might be confident, but that thing's going to tip. It's going to, as you build into the role, as you get more and more success, people build confidence that tips a little too far into ego.

How do you keep the guardrails on as a leader of leaders to keep them in check that they don't tip too far into one direction?

Chris King: So I think that overall that I, I think kind of people have a DNA that comes with them. And of course we can always change that DNA through coaching, through development, through experience. And so I don't think people actually get too far out of their guardrails, which is why you have to put the round pegs in the round holes.

But if, if I think that the reality of work is always going to be make people humble. So if I just make sure they see that what are you doing that works? What are you doing that doesn't work? If I make sure that they understand that, and when they make a misstep, I have to make sure they understand it.

And once they understand it, I don't need to lecture them on it. So I, I would say I very ever tell someone directly, this is what you need to do. I try to make them see what they need to do because then it's much more powerful when they see it for themselves versus me telling them to X, Y, Z. I say, here's the output. This is the goal that you need to achieve. And if that individual can figure out how they're going to get there themselves. It's a lot more powerful for them.

Russel Lolacher: So how do you know you're getting it right or wrong with an employee? What are the beige flags? I don't want to say red flags because once it gets to red flags, that's a different conversation. But if they start verging or moving into the direction of ego, if they're moving into the idea of not being humble, how do you as a leader go, yeah, we need to get you back on track, even if it's just sort of a nudge, like what does that look like from the outside?

Chris King: So I would say that when, when we're not getting the results, so let's say I have a CFO that's getting to be too much of a bully, he's bullying the rest of the team and saying, I need I need you to live to deliver X, Y, and Z. And if he's, not acting as part of the team. I gotta take him, I gotta take him aside and tell him we're not going to get the output that we want if you're going to behave this way because the rest of the team's not on board with what you want to do.

So I think that the proof of the pudding is always in the results. And actually, I truly believe that everything we do, whether it's picking people, defining strategy, operations, effectiveness, it's going to show up in the financial results. So everything we do shows up in financial results, but I can't wait for a failure there.

So when someone starts to go off the rails, I need to take them aside and talk to them about how we can be more effective and make sure they understand if you're going to this way, we're never going to get where we need to go as a team.

Russel Lolacher: The dangers are as though as a CEO, you are further and further and further away from the frontline. There is a lot of bureaucracy between you and the frontline staff who are having a very different employee experience than you are. So are you waiting for the fin... like you said, you're not waiting for the financials, but you're also not in it.

You are expecting your leaders who are reporting to somebody who are reporting to somebody who are reporting to you to do this. To, to, to keep people in check. So how do you keep that, how do you keep that considered?

Chris King: So I think that has to be a discipline because that is a big danger. And so one of the things that I try to do is I try to have round tables with employees. And the way I see it is we have to communicate bi directionally with the entire team and we can do it tops down. But as you say, it gets lost in there.

So I also think I have to communicate sideways. And not just communicate, but listen sideways. And so I'm gonna do that through town halls, but also with having round tables where hopefully people are gonna speak up. And by not having too big an ego, I, when I get in that room with that set of employees that I hope we're gonna be representative with for the of the view, then I'm gonna try to make them feel comfortable enough that they can speak up and tell me what, and usually you find out a lot of stuff by having those round tables.

Russel Lolacher: And I think that's key too, is that you have those round tables and if nobody speaks, it's not psychologically safe for them to speak. And that should be a huge red flag.

Chris King: Huge! That's a huge, that's a red flag, right?

Russel Lolacher: There's also another one I brought up a few times that there can be town halls. And I don't know if you've encountered this, but there'd be like, say corporate wide town halls, you have the message you want to get out. And there's always one or two people that are a little extra truth to power in those presentations.

Everybody else is going, did they just say that at a town hall meeting, like in front of everybody? But what I, but what I see is what caused or what forced that individual to feel like that was the only recourse they had was to speak up at that level. Like maybe their direct boss was not providing psychological safety.

So the only way they could be heard is to yell to the mountaintops because they're not feeling heard. I think that also needs to be as a red flag for a CEO or executive going, where's my middle management here? Why are they not listening to this employee? Why are they not feeling psychological safe at that level that they feel like they have to do it at this level?

Chris King: And middle management is always a big challenge. You're exactly right. And you have to be careful things aren't getting lost in translation. So every year I set a, a, a OKRs, right? Key achievements that we want to, and results that we want to achieve. And you think that they're so clear and then you find out If you go down to the first level employee, they're doing something completely different.

It's like, how did they get so lost in translation? So that is something we have to use discipline to make sure that we know down to the frontline employee that they understand what those objectives are. And as I said many times, what the mission is. And we have to be very careful of that as leaders.

Russel Lolacher: How do you respond to challenges of a truth to power to show that ego free or humbleness because there will be that person and they're not wrong. They just might be delivering it in a way that probably isn't the best way because they're so exasperated or they're so frustrated, which is a whole bunch of other things.

But as, as you said, perception is so important. So if an employee is doing that and you as the CEO is feeling that brunt of that frustration, how do you show up? What tactfully?... Yeah, that's a word tactfully. Do you do in that moment? Is it listening and shutting up?

Chris King: Yeah, right. I think it's like listening and obviously you want to show the confidence that we talked about. You try to smooth it over as much as possible and relay whatever truth there might be that is associated with what, with what that team member might have brought up, but I might talk to that person one on one later to understand in just when there's the two of us there, understand what their frustration is and what they're trying to tell me so I can make sure I can understand it and maybe I'm gonna give some answers.

Russel Lolacher: So this came up for me when I was doing some research and digging into preparing for this episode was we can talk about humility. We can talk about lack of ego, but then I want to get into the diversity side of it. Cause gender has a different angle to that entirely because you got your CIS white males have a very different look at what ego driven and humbleness versus not humbleness historically in the organizations. So as a CEO, as a female CEO, do you have to tread differently? Because there is that belief that you have to lean into acting differently to be treated the same, or you have to do more work to be treated the same. Which obviously is very true. But I want to understand a little bit of when that comes around the ego side of things, because it's not equal.

Chris King: Sure. I think that well, first of all, since I grew up as an electrical engineer, or that's my background and spent my life in the semiconductor industry, I was pretty much always the only woman in the room. Not only in the workplace, but later in the boardroom until very recently. So I think that first of all, we have to be ourselves, we all have a DNA and I think that's very important in being a leader, which I had mentioned before, we can adjust if we need to. So we can't change who we are and try to be somebody else. So I never, I would never recommend that, but you're obviously right. There's difference... differences between men and women, obviously.

And so I think we have to play to our strengths as a woman in my case. And one of the things that I always try to say is a customer only cares, do you supply them with great product? They don't really care if you're a man or a woman, a shareholder only wants great results, financial results, and employees want to have a great job that is fulfilling to them.

And all those things don't have a lot to do with gender. What I, where I think the ego comes in is as we, as whatever diverse group we might be, is making their way up the pyramid. It always comes with your boss that your boss might be saying that a woman's not going to get ahead of me. And so that's where the, that's where it becomes very difficult.

And I outlined many of those experiences in my book where I have a boss that says, Hey, Chris, she's a great lieutenant, but she'll never be a general. And so that's kind of the attitude. And that's where we just have to be persistent. And one of the things I say is, I mean, I built these large businesses in IBM.

But when they got big enough to have an executive leader, I wasn't the one picked. They picked a good old boy. And sometimes you realize your net, no matter what you do in this particular environment, you're not going to be successful. And then you better figure out something else to do. So I always say, if you can't go through, go around.

So it's something that we can't change. I don't think with a forcefully, but we have to really work on how we our way around these personality differences and approaches and egos.

Russel Lolacher: Leaning more, thank you for that, leaning more into the diversity side of things, generations also have a different perspective of what a leader is and how they show up. As a Gen Xer and, and as Boomers see things, this is, it's a hierarchy. You have power. It is, it is the ladder, right? Meanwhile, there's Millennials and GenZ's going, I want to walk into the CEO's office whenever I want to share what I... and I'm like, you're also not wrong, but there is this generational divide of how we look at leadership, accessibility and what we will put up or not put up with when it comes to ego and in the, in the organization. So how have you seen that show up?

Chris King: Well, that might be a challenge that maybe I haven't figured out yet how to navigate because I am a senior citizen at this point in my career, but I'm running a company with a lot of young people. And So far, they're seeming to want to come along because everyone wants to be a winner. So I think it's those tried and true things.

And I don't mind when people want to stop me and talk to me. I'm always going to stop and I'm always going to listen. So I appreciate, especially if people are engaged, as long as they want to work hard, I'm all in. And I want to figure out how to work with the younger generation. But we'll see how I do there.

Russel Lolacher: But I think you, to your point is your accessibility was already there. So it wasn't like you had to adjust your, adjust a leadership style to go, Oh, now I need to come out of my office more. Now I need to walk a different floor every day. Like you're already doing the things that is being demanded by younger generations and rightfully so. Like I, I, like I said, I'm a Gen X going, you can do that? You can say you want meetings that actually matter? Like, I hate going to meetings that don't matter too, I just didn't know you could actually say something about it. So I think that speaks to your leadership in that you're already creating an environment that is already catering to the needs of younger generations and what they're requesting.

I think it will be very hard for executives who are rigid, that have one leadership style, that are overly confident in their success rather than being humble in their success. What advice would you give those CEOs that may have to adjust?

Chris King: You need to be tuned in. That's what I'm thinking as you're talking, Russel. It's... it's as long as I stay tuned in, whatever generation it is, I'm going to be able to adapt to it.

Russel Lolacher: Yeah, fair. And I think you, to adapt, you have to know what you're adapting to. And...

Chris King: Let's get tuned on the right dial here, right? Maybe even that's like too old school...

Russel Lolacher: No, not at all.

Chris King: Yeah, the right channel.

Russel Lolacher: So somebody listening to this is not going, well, I can't start my own business from scratch. I'm in the middle of my career. I'm just a junior executive starting down my path, but I want to work in an egoless organization. I want to be more humble, or I want to be surrounded by leaders that are more humble.

What are the first steps to go into the organization? You say about learning your organization. Are we talking surveys? Are we like, what, what would you say would be the first couple of steps to go, you know what, this is the path to that.

Chris King: So I would say to that junior executive is be yourself, try to find your own star. Don't worry if the rest of the, leadership above you has a different rigid style. You live the right way, do the right things and you can get up the chain and you become that leader. I'd say I try not to worry too much about the people around me.

It's like even when I was a junior executive or not even an executive, it's like I'm going to make great things happen. I'm going to achieve a mission that I put in front of myself. I'm going to, I'm going to motivate a team. I'm going to great, get great customers and I'm going to make my own way. And so I'm like, don't worry too much about the people around you.

Do your own thing.

Russel Lolacher: Would you, to speak to our earlier note, would you provide more advice to a female moving up in an organization that is navigated around people with huge egos and trying to find their way to a level of leadership that they consider success.

Chris King: I would say no. I think that to the female, it's the same advice. And I think it's don't be defined what, why people, what other people expect of you or expect you to be able to do. I will tell you, in all my development plans as a young manager, they never expected me to get very far. But I think you have to have faith in yourself and you have to be doggone persistent in whatever it is that you want to do or accomplish.

And so don't let those around you define you. Make your own way. Build your own business. You can do it.

Russel Lolacher: What advice would you give to employees that are within organizations that aren't egoless? That are surrounded by egos? They're not necessary in those leadership roles, but they do have their relationships with either their colleagues or their leaders going you know what? This is this is not an organized like it is an old boys club or it is all about what you do, not how you treat people.

How do you do just quit? How do you control your bubble?

Chris King: So I would say that, and I grew up in a boy's club, so it's use the power of the customer. Whether you're working with an external customer or an internal customer, if you put the customer as your North Star, they are hugely powerful. Nobody can argue with that. Achieve results. Nobody can argue with achieving great results, whether they're financial or otherwise.

Those are the two things that I, that can bring you above what everyone else's style or opinion or ego is. If you focus on getting stuff done, you will, you'll be recognized.

Russel Lolacher: How do you keep yourself on track? I want to wrap up with this back to the self awareness piece. Consistency is a big piece. Consistency is you can be great one day, but then you know, life happens and we had a bad day the next day or you're really feeling yourself and the ego might show up or slip out in a meeting where you do flex a little bit of that ego.

How do you keep yourself in check on a day to day basis?

Chris King: Well, I'll tell you every job I've had has had its challenges financial challenges. I'm in one right now in the job that I have. And so it's You've got to know that you're going to come out the other side of that challenge. That's what makes you humble is, is facing these challenges head on and being persistent and saying, I'm going to be successful.

I'm at a low point right now, but I'm just going to work through it. I'm going to get the team to work with me and we're going to get out the other side and be successful. And it just don't be a quitter, be persistent.

Russel Lolacher: I think that's a key point to make too, is that on your journey, you're going to have ups and downs. Being humble allows you to coast through all of it because it's as important to be humble during the highs as it is during the lows, because you're going to have both regardless of what industry you're in.

Chris King: That's life and business.

Russel Lolacher: And there is no real divide, right? It is not suddenly we're completely different people. Cause we flipped on a computer or we walked into an office space. It is. I love that you were wrapping up our conversation that it is life. We're not talking work. We're not talking personal time. It is all life.

Chris King: It's all life. That's right. And do it right.

Russel Lolacher: Thank you, Chris. I really appreciate this. So I'm going to wrap up our chat, which I've really, really enjoyed one last question. What's one simple action people can do right now to improve the Their relationships at work.

Chris King: I would say to tune in to those around you to listen and to always do the right thing and encourage others and everyone else is going to feel really good about working with you.

Russel Lolacher: That is Chris King. She's the CEO of Henry Schein One. She's also the world's first female CEO of a semiconductor company. And she's written a book about it called Breaking Through the Silicon Ceiling. Thank you so much for being here, Chris.

Chris King: Thank you, Russel.