How to Establish and Build Connection in the Workplace w/ Morag Barrett

In this episode of Relationships at Work, Russel chats with author, executive coach and leadership expert  Morag Barrett on how to establish and build workplace connections.

Morag shares her insights and experience in..

• The importance of trust in work relationships.
• Building and recognizing connection.
• Loneliness in leadership is a real issue.
• Intentional relationship management.
• Power of an abundant mindset.
• Addressing diversity in communication styles.

And connect with me for more great content!

• Sign Up for R@W Notes
• Subscribe on Youtube
• Follow on Linkedin
• Follow on Instagram
• Follow on TikTok
• Email me anytime

Transcript

Russel Lolacher: And on the show today, we have Morag Barrett, and here is why she is awesome.

She's an executive coach and leadership expert, helping leaders achieve outstanding results through the power of their professional relationships. She's also the CEO and Founder of SkyTeam, they've supported the development of more than 10, 000 leaders from 20 countries and on six continents.

She's also the award winning author of a couple of books with their latest book, You, Me, We, Why We All Need A Friend At Work and How To Show Up As One. She's also a member of the Forbes Coaches Council and contributor to the American Management Association, Entrepreneur, CIO Magazine. I'm running out of breath. Hello, Morag. How are you today?

Morag Barrett: Hey, Russel, I am doing just, I'm gonna go with tickety boo. There you go. Tickety boo.

Russel Lolacher: I see delightful, but tickety boo. That's like you're leveling it up. I like that.

Morag Barrett: Okay, fair enough.

Russel Lolacher: Connection. I love that. We're going to talk about connection today, considering relationships at work is the name of the show, and you can't have any of that without understanding connection. But first I have to ask the question that I ask all of my guests, which is Morag. What's your best or worst employee experience?

Morag Barrett: So it was funny because when you asked me that in the green room, I pulled a funny face. It was something like, and one reason for that is, is I am a unique unicorn in that I love work no matter what. I've always loved work. So when you first ask that question, it doesn't really commute. Commute? Compute.

But I'll give you both. My best is right now, here and now, with SkyTeam. And why? Because of the allies at work, the friendships, the connections I have, not just with Eric and Ruby, my fellow unicorns, and Jose, the four of us here at SkyTeam, the depth of our relationships, but also the relationships and trust that we've built with the clients that we work with, whether it's executive coaches or leadership programs.

And that got me to thinking, well, what's the worst working experience? And you can even see it on my face already. It's like, oh my goodness, I've had a couple of sucky bosses and a couple of really toxic colleagues. And so when you look at the thread, it's why relationships at work are so important because they literally can make or break how we feel about work.

But in the case of my sucky bosses and colleagues, they can make or break how we feel about ourselves. So there you go. Tickety boo and answered both questions.

Russel Lolacher: Well, that's, that's the thing is that a lot of people don't understand and especially bad toxic leaders don't understand that what they're doing is providing trauma for a lot of their employees. Because I've asked this question 150 plus times. And usually it's from 20, 30 years ago. This is not somebody that had a bad day last week.

This is something that still is... They don't have to think about it. It is jumping out at them the moment that I asked the question. So I want to dig a little deeper into your answers of good and bad. You're talking about deeper relationships. Now, obviously at work right now in, in SkyTeam, it's deeper.

It's, it's in, it's enriched. It's, it's, it's valuable. Meanwhile, you've had toxic bosses where it wasn't. What are you getting now that you didn't get tangibly from those bad experiences?

Morag Barrett: Oh, the list is endless. Trust. Implicit and explicit. I know they have my back. As Brené Brown described it in one of her videos, they would move a body for me. And you have to go and watch her video to realise it's not as sinister as it sounds. But I know I could call them at 2am and they would pick up, obviously concerned because I'm calling them at 2am, but they would move heaven and earth to help me out if I was in a pickle.

But what they also do, and I, they give me the kick in the pants when I need to be wrangled. When I'm generating 3, 000 ideas of what we could do or should do, or maybe I've had some feedback from a client and it's, it's causing me to hesitate and question what we're doing. They're the ones that give me the tough love, not just the rah-rah work as well.

So trust is definitely the underpinning of everything that we do. And having fun along the way.

Russel Lolacher: Trust is a funny thing though because it can also be horrible trust because you've had toxic leaders. You could trust them to micromanage you. You could trust them to backstab you like they're dependable as well, just in a completely different way. You're like, Oh, I know the kind of person you are.

I can trust you to backstab me in a meeting that I'm not in. Right? You have, you have trust. It's just the other type of trust.

Morag Barrett: Yeah, it's funny, because in my book Cultivate, you can see it standing under the flowers, I have the relationship ecosystem, and I hadn't made this connection until you just, uh, talked about it there. But in there, the relationship ecosystem, I talk about four relationship dynamics that we experience at work.

And the vertical axis is, yeah, see, I can hold it up so that people can look at it. There you go. Unconditional and conditional, and the unconditional. is the high trust. And to your point, the allies on the right there, high trust, we focused, have my back like Eric and Ruby, but your adversaries, high trust, because it's their me focus, i. e. about all about them. To your point, you can trust that this is going to be hard work, it's going to be toxic, we're going to butt heads. But okay, so we've got a language now. How do you break the pattern? Because whether or not I like you, whether or not I trust you to dog sit, whether or not I trust you to lend $500, whether or not I trust you to give me the, the warnings of impending disaster at work, in some ways are irrelevant because you and I need to work respectfully together because our success depends on it.

We're on the same project. We're on the same team. We're trying to achieve the same goals. So I now have a choice, to reciprocate in kind or as some of the other toxic colleagues have done for me, be smaller than, sit back, stop sharing my opinion, or I can actually step into the arena and have the tough conversation that draws a line in the sand.

You can continue to be a bonehead boss. You can continue to be, at best, a brilliant jerk or just a jerk. But I'm telling you right now, Russel, here's what you can expect from me if you choose to do that. And that be powerful talk, but it's the only way you're going to shift. And if you choose to continue to be a jerk, then my choice is, do I stay or do I leave?

But either way, I'm no longer a victim. And hopefully the shadow that is being cast is shortened.

Russel Lolacher: And I only hope that that individual who's going back to that toxic leader and having that conversation isn't in a culture that's going to back that toxic leader more than that individual. So they're going to have to leave. Because just they can have all the good conversations they want, but if that toxic leader is being rewarded for that toxic behavior, why would they ever change?

Morag Barrett: Well, agreed. And so that's back to making sure that your allies are not just up and down, but do you have horizontal allies? And they can be your oasis of calm when you say, is it just me or is it this leader's style? And if it is just me, what is it that I'm doing that's poking the bear and scratching the wound that's causing that reaction?

And if it isn't just me, then to your point, you've got a choice. You either take the informed risk, and I realise that if you are junior to that person, it could be career suicide, but you have to make an informed choice. And we either speak up, or choose to shut up. And that doesn't mean that you don't tolerate it. There are other mechanisms for getting that feedback in, but not speaking up, not, or not choosing explicitly. not to speak up, if you get the double negative, leaves us paralyzed, and therefore those salvos that might come from a toxic colleague can hurt even more because then we start beating ourselves up of, well, I should do this, or why don't they, and, and so on.

And that, that doesn't help. You either do something or accept, draw the line in the sand. Again, maybe not as assertively as I just did it to camera, but do it in a way that you feel that you, you have done your best, because that's it. All we can do is do our best in that moment and then make a choice. Is my best enough or is it time for me to find a different environment where like Eric, Ruby, Jose and I, we can thrive?

Russel Lolacher: If you go through an exercise like that, because you're gonna have to do a lot of self reflection, you're gonna have to figure out who you're, what your boundaries are, what success means to you personally, in all of that prep to have that difficult conversation with that leader. And as you're doing that prep and understanding, you're getting a lot of information, not only about your leader, But also yourself and the environment in which you're about to go through.

And if you hear things like career limiting move, you're in the wrong organization because they don't embrace truth the power. And it's just going to be, I mean, you can, you have the power to leave, even though that can be also difficult for numerous reasons for people, uh, with the out the privilege of being able to walk away from an experience like that.

So I love when people do that, but also at the same time, I also know it's not easy financially, culturally... there's a lot of reasons people might not be able to leave, but trying to get empowered in that situation is so important. And that's where it gets into connection.

And that gets us to connection Morag, because you're talking about connection.

You're talking about. I guess defining connection you're having with a leader. So before we get any further down this rabbit hole, I want to ask first, what's the Morag definition of connection?

Morag Barrett: Uh, a connection is where we are better together.

Russel Lolacher: So it's a positive thing?

Morag Barrett: Yes..

Russel Lolacher: So how do we know we have one?

Morag Barrett: Well, think about it right now, who are the people you would jump at the chance to work with or work with again? That, those are the people, the best bosses, the best colleagues, the people that have come to mind. And how do you know you have it? Well, what was it that they did or said that makes them become top of mind?

And in fact, as people are listening and watching this conversation, I'm going to challenge them, double dog dare challenge you. Whoever just came to mind, whether it's a current boss, colleague, or a past boss or colleague, to the extent you can, I want you to send them a message. Say you're listening to Relationships at Work podcast. We were, they were talking about connection and what does it look like when it, when it's a good and positive one. And I thought of you and here's why. Make sure you include and here's why. And there you go, you've just made or renewed a connection that maybe has been laying dormant for a little while.

And even if it's a current colleague, you have just made a huge deposit into that relationship bank account, because I guarantee you're going to get an amazing reply. Anything from the, 'oh shucks, nothing. Don't mention it,' to 'Oh my God, you've just made my day.' And I know that because I've been getting leaders around the world to send those messages for the last decade.

And it is amazing how powerful it can be just to recognize who makes a difference for you and to essentially say thank you. And here's why I value you. That's how you start building connection.

Russel Lolacher: Does it change based on where you sit in an org chart or a hierarchy? So a leader sending that note to a frontline staff versus the frontline staff, sending that to executive. Does it change your approach? Okay.

Morag Barrett: In what way? Help me understant that.

Russel Lolacher: Sure. Absolutely. So I think it might be a lot easier for somebody in a more powerful position to reach out or a colleague where it's across, uh, or even just one, one level up or one level down where you're reaching out, you're building that connection.

I love what you did. You know, even cold, you know, cold calling somebody out of the blue after I was just on a great team with you. That was, those ideas you brought out were fantastic. But having an entry level staff, somebody that's been there for a year, messaging the CEO, messaging the vice president. That might not be as easy to do or expected or could come out of left field? So is connection built less easily when it depends on where you are in the organizational chart?

Morag Barrett: So, yes, no, and maybe. So if it's done authentically, genuinely, if you've worked with a CEO, even if you're a brand new intern in the business, send the message. Send the message. No one, whatever their level in the organisation, whatever their stage of their career, is ever going to say, please don't thank me enough. You know, that's too much. They're just going to say thank you. So get in the habit of acknowledging others contributions, and especially when it's had a personal impact for you. Who's going to argue with that? If I've made your day and you say, 'Hey, Morag, what you said there really resonated. And it's, it made me think differently about my relationships at work.' Brilliant. Send me the LinkedIn message. Send me an email. I'd love to hear from you because you never know. I might be having a tough day thinking, why do I bother? Am I talking into the echo chamber and your message to me, because you've made the connection that it was on the Relationships at Work podcast with Russel, is enough to make it not go from, 'well that's kind of weird and a little creepy,' to 'this matters.'

And trust me, connection matters because 20 percent of the leaders who've completed our Ally Mindset Profile say that they have no friends at work. All of the research, including that from Dr. Vivek Murthy, the U. S. Surgeon General, says that loneliness is an epidemic, especially here in the U. S., but it's global, and it is having a huge and direct impact on our health, happiness, and productivity. So connection matters. Reach out, up, down, sideways, do it. Send Russel and I a message to say that this episode made a difference. You'll make our day.

Russel Lolacher: So that brings up the question of that loneliness piece. And I'm glad you did because I've talked and I brought it up on the show before where I had, I was doing a keynote and this executive asked me how they can better understand their culture because he sits in his office. And he talks to his admin staff. He has no idea what's going on. How come I don't know what's going on? And then you talk of loneliness and I'm like, that's self imposed isolation. That's a person that's sitting in their office, crossing their arms and going, why doesn't anybody talk to me? They're not proactively going out and making those connections. What is influencing that loneliness that these leaders are talking about?

Morag Barrett: Well, this isn't helping. I don't know about you, but I have fake perky'd through a Zoom meeting with a couple of cups of coffee hung up at the end and gone, I can't believe they've asked me to do that. And felt essentially alone in these four walls. The pandemic did a doozy on our relationships, not just with our colleagues, but with ourselves.

And that's why Eric Ruby and I wrote You, Me, We, Why We All Need A Friend At Work and How To Show Up As One to break down that barrier. Because what we learned through the pandemic, some of my newest and deepest friends. I made through the camera. And it was a mental choice to be vulnerable, to lean in, and not fall into the trap on a Zoom meeting.

You know how when you're 30 seconds late, we're all going, Oh my goodness, I'm late. But in real life, you could walk into a meeting three, five minutes late, because you had to walk from one floor to another in the building, and you stopped at the coffee machine, or heaven forbid you went to the restroom before the meeting, and nobody batted an eyelid.

And so what this camera has done and the celebrity squares or rogues gallery that we see means that we tend to jump straight into the, so what are you doing? Where's the spreadsheet? What's the problem? Get it done. And then we hang up and we go and do it all again. And so it's scheduling spontaneity, spending some time saying, Hey, what's happened with you since we last met? What's happening at the weekend? Give me three words to describe the culture of this organization on its good days, and three words to describe the culture on its bad days. There you go, leader sitting in the room not knowing. Now you've got a pulse check. And how do you close the gap and make sure that there are more good days than there are bad days?

Russel Lolacher: Is this on a spectrum? I mean, that is, is it ones and zeros? I have a connection. I don't have a connection. Or is it, and you talked about friends at work, so that obviously is a much stronger connection than an acquaintance. So how do you work that spectrum? Because you can't be, what's the, you can only know 200 people. I think that's the thing is that you can only remember and know 200 people. And a lot of organizations are a hell of a lot bigger than that. So how do you, how do you determine connection?

Morag Barrett: So, that's Dunbar's number. Robin Dunbar, I think it is, from the UK, talked about 150 people and then we start to break into subgroups. So in both of our books, Cultivate and You, Me, we talk about, look up, first of all, who am I dependent on for my success? Because, to your point, there's only a finite number, amount of coffee I can drink. There are only so many people. So many virtual or in person happy hours I can go to. So let's be strategic around given what I need to achieve between now and year end, who are the critical few relationships on whom I am dependent for my success and vice versa? Because then you can choose how and where to show up.

So, if look up is pausing regularly to say, who are the critical few, show up then allows you to be intentional in creating those opportunities to deepen those relationships or if it's a slightly butting head relationship like we talked about earlier, sitting down and saying, hey, I was listening to this podcast and they were talking about colleagues where we might be butting heads and it made me think of us.

Do you feel the same way? What's one thing we could do different to change it? There you go. There's a softball way of, of raising and giving feedback. And then the third part is step up. So look up, who am I dependent on? Changing lists as we go. Show up, how am I going to deepen this connection by going first? Unlike the leader you talked about earlier, who stayed in their office. And then step up is having the courage to just go and do it and to do your best. It can but help.

Russel Lolacher: You're talking about the initial contact. We're talking about those first opportunities to go, Hey, you know, but, but the connection and relationship needs to come with some care and feeding. So once we have that initial correspondence. How do we follow up? What is the ability for us to go, okay, I talked to that person three months ago. Maybe it's time I reach out again? Like, what does that look like?

Morag Barrett: So, the tactics we talk about and the concepts in both You, Me, We and Cultivate, it doesn't matter whether it's first date behaviour and we were strangers or mutual acquaintances that are only just getting to meet now, or whether we've worked together for 10 years. There are so many opportunities to recalibrate and invest in the health of our relationships at work.

Maybe you get a promotion and either I'm reporting to you now, or maybe you got a promotion and I'm where I am in a different team. It's an opportunity to recalibrate. Well, how did we work together when we were on the same team? And how does that need to change and shift given the new responsibilities or the new leadership level in a way that preserves the relationship and allows for the increased accountability and results that are being asked of you?

So, don't leave it to chance. I hear too often inexperienced leaders who say, Oh, well, Russel and I have worked together for 10 years. He's going to think I'm soft if I start asking him how it's going. And I'm thinking, No, he won't. Well, at least I hope you wouldn't. But in your one on ones, there should be an opportunity of what's working, what's not.

What's one thing I can do to help you or us succeed? Ask those questions and that's how you get the feedback that allow you to course correct before something happens that could undermine the relationship completely.

Russel Lolacher: So how are we getting in our own way? Because we're hearing studies. of people being lonely. We're hearing leaders, as you mentioned earlier, who are 20 percent lonely. So I assumed I'm here, me making an assumption is that as a leader, aren't you supposed to talk to people and connect with people through your career to become a leader, but maybe that's not always the case.

So how are we getting in our own way? And I keep hearing a buzz in the back of my ear going, I'm too busy. I'm too busy.

Morag Barrett: There's the one. I don't have time for this. We're going to get there. And it's like a trust question. When, when I'm working with leaders, we talk about four questions we're asking ourselves consciously or subconsciously in every interaction. The first two are transactional. It's all about what needs to get done. And it's, can I count on you to do your stuff and get back to me on time so I can get my stuff done? It's reactive. And then there's the proactive, can I depend on you? Which is where the consistency comes in. Can I depend on you to go the extra mile to spot and fix the typo, to give me warnings of impending disaster?

And that's where many relationships stop and start. It's the getting on the Zoom, asking about the project, moving on and not checking in on the, the who and the how. Because the other questions are, do I care about you? And do I trust you? And those last two are transformational. Those are about getting to know my journey, my history before I became a bestselling author and a consultant and an executive coach that sought out and worked with leaders from 20 countries.

Well, before that, I also had a life in corporate. I'm before that life in corporate with leadership development. I was in commercial finance. So I know my way around a balance sheet and a profit loss, and I have a healthy curiosity about how business gets done. But if you don't take the time to ask questions, and if I don't take the time to share, there are hidden talents that you will never have an opportunity to tap into.

So we get in our own way because we think we don't have time, and we get in our own way because we mislabel this as soft skills. But this is critical to everyone's success. The health and quality of our relationship. So it would be daft not to.

Russel Lolacher: I see. And I actually just did a, a mini episode podcast about this is that sometimes relationships don't survive, reorgs or somebody left a new, to the new job. So I asked you who used to be a, a, in commercial finance, how did you maintain relationships you've had three careers ago to still have those relationships, even though you don't have a reason necessarily transactional or day to day, what's the benefit and how do you maintain that?

Morag Barrett: So there's a multi layer answer to that because the reality is many of the contacts from my banking career, which is now 30 years ago. Uh, another funny face to pull there. I haven't kept in touch with everybody because to your point and Dunbar's number, we literally couldn't send that many holiday cards or birthday greetings.

But how do I do it? Well, LinkedIn is my Rolodex and I am on there every day. And when I see somebody announce a promotion or that they've changed organizations, I will write a personal message offering congratulations. I have a reminder on my calendar every Monday. Yep, I wrote the book, two books on this topic, and yet I need a calendar reminder.

And each Monday it's a slightly different list, but it's the people who I have looked up, i. e. that first step, and determined are important either for my success this year or because they are important and I want to stay in touch. And it's my reminder each week just to send them a hey I was thinking of you.

Hope you had a great weekend. Or, hey, you mentioned that your son, daughter, the offspring, was graduating university, how were the celebrations? And so I will make myself reminders. And it's not cheating. It's not cheating. You just couldn't remember everything about everybody. So make a note, put it on your calendar, and then follow through and do it. That's how you keep in touch with more than the usual suspects who you get to see every single day.

Russel Lolacher: I have a tradition that, so every... and it takes a bit of time, but it's always worthwhile. Every Christmas, I will take that morning and message, like, 50 people that I know, just wishing them a Merry Christmas. These are usually friends and family, but some of them are work related. Now, New Year's I actually treat that as the Rolodex where I will go through work connections, LinkedIn or whatever, just wishing them a happy new year and making one comment that of something connective tissue where it's not just a cut and paste. And that has always reinforced relationships through the year. Because it's just sort of like, Oh yeah, right. Oh yeah. We liked each other that one time, or I haven't talked to you since last year. We should go for coffee. We should go for drinks. We should blah, blah, blah.

And it is just, it's such a great thing. It feels so good for me to have to, to reinvigorate those connections, but also it pays dividends and benefit by just, I'm feeding my bucket of my relationships where other things could come from dot, dot, dot.

Morag Barrett: And going back to your earlier question around what gets in our way, it's the mind trash of, oh, no, I'm only doing it because Facebook reminded me it was your birthday. Oh, they're going to think it's because it's only a year and it's New Year's. I'm only doing it because it's New Year's. I don't care. Do it anyway.

If I've come into your mind, it is enough of a reason to do it. And the other big kicker is, well, they haven't contacted me. So, again, it doesn't matter. You're giving without necessarily the expectation of anything back. Just, this is what I found out. Abundance and generosity is the foundational practice of an ally mindset that we talk about in You, Me, We.

So, if you are working with an abundant and generous mindset, give the kudos, send the message. What possible harm could it do? The benefit it could bring is, Oh my goodness, Russel, I've been meaning to call you. Thank you. Let's grab coffee. And your next big opportunity is there in front of you.

Russel Lolacher: It blows me away when people who call themselves leaders are going, but nobody contacts me. I'm like, do you know leadership means proactive, right? You know, you know, leadership is leading. That's not waiting for others to do something for you, crossing your arms and woes me. You have to be... and they'll love you for it. They will.

They actually really enjoy, you know, I haven't talked to you in forever. Thank you so much. It is such that, it's getting us out of that bubble, those self imposed bubbles that we put ourselves based on titles, based on roles, based on responsibilities. One of the biggest, I laughed that you brought up Facebook. Cause I'm like, the only reason I even know it's your birthday is because Facebook told me I will even make that joke. And they laugh because they don't know my birthday either.

Morag Barrett: No. My best friend from high school. I always forget. I know it's in April. About the 26th, I think. Maybe the 21st. I don't know. But either way, Facebook is my conscience and does remind me.

Russel Lolacher: Where does diversity come into this? Because we're all very different people, we love different ways of connecting with each other. Something, someone feels connected if you message them every week. Others don't want to hear you for six months. Others, and that could be culturally based, that could be introvert, extrovert. So how do you approach it from... as a communications guy, I'm always considering my audience. So how do you take those steps to understand how they want to be communicated versus how I want to be, how I want to communicate?

Morag Barrett: Well, I'll tell you what doesn't work. Mind reading. And it is as simple as just ask. It could be as, Hey, Russel, I really enjoyed our conversation. It really energised me. I'd love to stay in touch. What would make sense for you? Or, how about I reach out again in three months and we schedule another conversation off camera?

Okay, so now I'm pushing and you can say, well, let's make it six or after the summer because I'm going on a big vacation. Makes note. Hey Russel, I was thinking of you today. How was your big vacation? So ask, ask, and then do it.

Russel Lolacher: Do you...? So there's this thing when I first started working in a, in a previous job we got pretty comfortable, me and the team, we got comfortable to a level where it was, Oh, we're Facebook friends. I'm the boss. They're my team. But there was one person is like, yeah, I'm not comfortable with that. Uh, that is a level of familiarity. And there's also an inside to my world that I don't want you to see because it might skew how you perceive me in the workplace. How do you know you're crossing lines when it comes to familiarity or getting too personal when it comes to connections, when work is work, personal is personal, but there's also this blend as well?

Morag Barrett: So I would definitely hope that you find out before you cross a line. And again, it goes back to the conversation. Relationships are built or destroyed one conversation at a time. And so by, if I join your team sitting down and saying, Hey, here's what you can expect from me, Russel, as your new boss. This is what success looks like.

This is what it means to be an ally or a friend at work to me. Tell me about your experience of best colleagues, worst colleagues, like you opened the episode and we can go from there and then making it an invitation. I think as a leader, there are two things to bear in mind. One is you have to make it an invitation to connect on LinkedIn, to connect on Facebook, whatever it might be, to reveal part of your life's journey. But you have to make it a choice so that people can choose how much to reveal and in what context. Those exercises you should still do, but they should be done non judgmentally. If somebody stays surface level, I like cats and dogs, but I don't tell you anything else because as trust builds, I will reveal more.

And the second, and why this is the second practice of an ally mindset is connection and compassion. I'll often hear inexperienced leaders say, well, I can't possibly be friends with my team. What happens if I need to reprimand them or fire them? Well, actually, I would hope that by being a friend or whatever word you use to describe the healthy connection. It means that when you do come, and if you have to come to do those things you do it in a more human way that respects the individual and potentially leaves the relationship intact because business decisions are just that. But that adage of it's not personal, it's just business is actually BS. Even the business decisions have to be handled with that human approach. And if we haven't got taken the time to get to know each other, what makes us tick, what we may be afraid of, what the implications are of being laid off, how can you communicate in that in a way that doesn't change the outcome. It's still gonna suck. But I can do it respectfully and with empathy and with compassion.

Russel Lolacher: How do you move the needle for those leaders who do cross the arms and say they're too busy? Like what is the, what is the tipping point argument for maybe some of your leadership clients where you're trying to convince them to make this move and take this extra effort in a busy, busy world, to make that effort? Like what is, what is the aha moment for them?

Morag Barrett: Well, there's a couple here again, I'm full of ideas. Remember, my team have to kick me in the pants to keep me reined in. So we have an online challenge that's five minutes a day. So first of all, you can cultivate your relationships in as little as five minutes a day. It's just choosing to do it. So we show them how to weave it in as part of how they are leading and managing.

It's not an extra. It's just being smarter about the time that you have. And that for me is making it accessible is the first step.

Russel Lolacher: So they come back to you, you've talked to them, you've given them that first step. How did they know it was working? How did they know that like, Oh, this has benefited me. Like, what did they see that really basically in a nutshell, working with you made my life better at work. Like, how did they know it was better for them?

Morag Barrett: So it isn't gonna happen after that first five minutes or after the first coaching conversation. You know how on the movies they cut to the scene where everybody's running down the beach in slow motion and everybody's happy . It doesn't the end. No. It's consistency. And keep doing it and what you will notice in six weeks, three months, six months from now, is all that turmoil and spin of, I've got to do this. I'm going to fix it. Russel didn't quite do it. I'm going to put this right. Instead of giving you the feedback and allowing you to adjust the PowerPoint template or wherever it might be. You will find yourself doing less busy work and doing more deep candor and debate, problem solving, collaboration and working together versus working in parallel and thinking, why aren't they keeping up?

Well, maybe you haven't told me I'm not running fast enough. So you will see the benefits in where you are spending your time and energy and how you're spending your time and energy to deliver your business results and career goals.

Russel Lolacher: The pandemic, as we talked about earlier, certainly highlighted things like remote and now hybrid, and that's changing connection. Do you feel like the pandemic hurt all of this? Hurt connection? Or do you think the pandemic actually put a spotlight on the importance of connection, in that this is work that's valuable as opposed to off the side of your desk? Like, I, I feel like pandemic has actually been doing kind of both.

Morag Barrett: It did both. And in fact, it's so important, I'm doing a working on the second edition of Cultivate right now with a brand new chapter on the post pandemic impact on our relationships. Because if you flashback and I remember this, I mean, I've worked in a hybrid environment for the last 20 years, but choosing to work either by camera and or in person is very different to having to work through the camera or at a distance. And I think the mental stress and anxiety all of the research shows has gone through the roof. And the mistake that we made, and it was understandable at the time, when the pandemic first hit, it was an emergency evacuation. Grab your laptops, take your bags, go home, we'll see you in two weeks. We'll see you in a month. We'll see you in three. We didn't expect it to be two years. And so we forced how we operated in the workplace to try and do it in the camera. And in fact, we need to do a blend and adjust and have that conversation of now we're back, what's working? What's not? And we're going to see the ongoing implications of the pandemic for decades to come.

If you think about our university graduates, my sons, whose university life and first jobs were all, tipped up sideways because of the pandemic, didn't get the same level of onboarding, the in office experience of watching your colleague or just being able to pop in and ask for help. Nope, they were thrown in on the deep end and just told, here's your job, get on with it.

Well, again, you get the, well, I can't ring Russel, because he's busy and we've got a one on one scheduled at three, but it's 10 a. m. and I have a question. In the office, you'd have just gone and asked. Now people are waiting. And of course they're getting labeled as lazy or not smart or can't cope. Well, we haven't taught them. And so it is even more important now. The epidemic of loneliness, the disconnect, the distrust, the isolation. If we don't choose individually to lean in and make a difference, I can guarantee it's only going to get worse.

Russel Lolacher: How has maintaining connection improved your career?

Morag Barrett: I wouldn't be where I am today without the relationships that I've made. You and I would not have met but for the mutual acquaintance that introduced us. Relationships are everything. Forget the six degrees of separation, it's two degrees of connection. And I mean it when I say if you've watched this episode and something resonated, if you reach out to me on LinkedIn and say, Here's what I heard, and this is what it meant to me. Or here's the question based on what you and Russel were talking about. It's me that replies, not a bot. And you've made a connection. So seize these opportunities to build your network because your network is essentially your net worth.

Russel Lolacher: We're going to wrap it up with my favourite question I wrap up every episode, Morag. Thank you so much for this. What is one simple action people can do right now to improve their relationships at work?

Morag Barrett: What can they do right now to improve their relationships at work? I'm going to go with express gratitude. So at SkyTeam, every week we meet and we start our meetings with ripples and joys. Ripples are things we've done, projects that have moved forward, impact we've had, and joys are anything personal and professional that has brought us brought us joy. So in expressing gratitude, you can use something like ripples and joys. And it's as powerful and as easy as saying, Hey, Russel, thank you for the opportunity for being on relationships at work. I really enjoyed our conversation. Have a great weekend. So express gratitude. That's how you start to build a connection, culture of connection and a sense of belonging.

Russel Lolacher: That is Morag Barrett. She's an executive coach and leadership expert, CEO and founder of SkyTeam and the author of a book you really should be picking up, which is You, Me, We, Why We All Need A Friend At Work and How To Show Up As One. Thank you so much Morag for being here.

Morag Barrett: My pleasure, Russel. It really was so much fun.